God:Pay now or pay later OR Loving/forgiving

[jabresnahan]

Excuse the title, needed more room

I’m also sure I’m posting at the wrong spot. Nothing can go wrong, go wrong

I am clawing my way as a revert into trying to grasp what is expected from me as a Catholic. And my teachers seem to be kind of old.

I found an article “to the friends of the cross” on ewtn’s web site. The author I believe is french (I can’t spell anyway) and wrote the stuff the legion of mary is based on.

His assertion is ok, you went to confession, you still need to make an enourmous amount of penances(that wasn’t his word Mortifications perhaps) and if you didn’t do enough of that here, pay here, you would end up paying later, perhaps for all erternity.

As I’m reading I’m thinking: come to me all you who are burdened and heavy ladden and I will give you rest? Why are you worrying? Seek first the Kingdom and all this will be given as well. The flip side: You must loose your life to save it… Hate it in fact. Count it all joy Yet take up your cross, my grace sufficient

My life since putting this scapular on has turned from sort of a feel good love affair to a waseland where there is a ferocious battle raging. The enemy screams: this is not love, this is abuse, why do you go on? Give up NOW! How many times must I pin you helpless to the ground? The next time I’ll finish you off.

I can tell you there are no aithiests in foxholes !

Anyway I’m trying to understand (the engineer) and talk to others in the church about this and I just get these stares. There is no one at the same place I am.

And in a way sort of nulifying my experiance they talk about our loving God.

The founder of Opus Deie talks about the need for mortifications.

I never heard any of this growing up.

Can anyone point me to a paper issued by the magisterium that difinativly lays this out. A chuch leader told me that some of the saint were on the strangeside with far out teachings.

I believe different theologens swing both ways so I’m interested in something from the magisterium.

I’m also, perhaps in vain, trying to find the undo list for reverts

Would I be pushing my luck (the bottom line) is there anything aproaching assurance of salvation?

 

[nobody]

jabresnahan:

…Anyway I’m trying to understand (the engineer) … There is no one at the same place I am.
…I’m also, perhaps in vain, trying to find the undo list for reverts
…

Those are the parts of your post I think I understand.

To make myself a good engineer, I’d flip things over and over, to get the best overall picture of the problem that I could. As an engineer, you have to continuously be running “what if’s” in your head.

Now, as I’m trying to “understand” my faith, I find myself doing the same things: it’s like I have a constant devil’s advocate tape playing in my head.

“the undo list for reverts” - If you find it, please let me know. I did so many things wrong that I now regret, I wonder if I’ve damaged my soul beyond repair, and that’s what’s blocking me from receiving the grace of faith.

I obviously don’t have answers for you, I just wanted to tell you I’m praying for you, and to ask you to pray for me.

I’ve thought about starting a CEA thread: Catholic Engineers Anonymous.

Peace.

 

[springbreeze]

jabresnahan:

Excuse the title, needed more room

I’m also sure I’m posting at the wrong spot. Nothing can go wrong, go wrong

I am clawing my way as a revert into trying to grasp what is expected from me as a Catholic. And my teachers seem to be kind of old.

I found an article “to the friends of the cross” on ewtn’s web site. The author I believe is french (I can’t spell anyway) and wrote the stuff the legion of mary is based on.

His assertion is ok, you went to confession, you still need to make an enourmous amount of penances(that wasn’t his word Mortifications perhaps) and if you didn’t do enough of that here, pay here, you would end up paying later, perhaps for all erternity.

As I’m reading I’m thinking: come to me all you who are burdened and heavy ladden and I will give you rest? Why are you worrying? Seek first the Kingdom and all this will be given as well. The flip side: You must loose your life to save it… Hate it in fact. Count it all joy Yet take up your cross, my grace sufficient

My life since putting this scapular on has turned from sort of a feel good love affair to a waseland where there is a ferocious battle raging. The enemy screams: this is not love, this is abuse, why do you go on? Give up NOW! How many times must I pin you helpless to the ground? The next time I’ll finish you off.

I can tell you there are no aithiests in foxholes !

Anyway I’m trying to understand (the engineer) and talk to others in the church about this and I just get these stares. There is no one at the same place I am.

And in a way sort of nulifying my experiance they talk about our loving God.

The founder of Opus Deie talks about the need for mortifications.

I never heard any of this growing up.

Can anyone point me to a paper issued by the magisterium that difinativly lays this out. A chuch leader told me that some of the saint were on the strangeside with far out teachings.

I believe different theologens swing both ways so I’m interested in something from the magisterium.

I’m also, perhaps in vain, trying to find the undo list for reverts

Would I be pushing my luck (the bottom line) is there anything aproaching assurance of salvation?

Dear jab

I truly believe that the first step for a revert after making a good confession is to believe that God FORGIVES you and that you should then also FORGIVE yourself, this also means forgiving all of God’s children, humankind for their sins against you and to society and God.

Part of faith is believing that because God is so very very good He is capable of forgiving us even our very worst sins. Once you have received absolution you are forgiven and you truly intend to amend your life and not proceed to commit the same sins again or to try not to sin at all by the grace of God.

Now you must love yourself as God does and believe that He loves you so very much and allowed His Son to die for you.

Fast, pray, hope, love, be joyful and do not worry.

God Bless you

 

[jabresnahan]

I have seen with my 5 senses over the last year a Father / Papa Abba quite different from my experiance as a Protestant. At times my Papa has seemed to be abusive with hospital stays and severe health problems.

I know I must walk by faith not by sight. To say that and do it I have found dificult.

So I asked the question: Am I doing what my Papa would have me do? And that has led down interesting paths like: if you claim you’re a wolf (not a sheep) dont expect the Shepherd to protect you. Or if you are in the refineres fire, do you have a choice about being removed before the silver smith is done removing the dross?

Maybe the solution is to be like a little child and leave it all to my Papa?

Part of the problem is I’ve been in hells waiting room and it was no party. And I don’t see in Catholisism the “assurance” you could have in evangelical churches.

And evangelicals loved to bring exactly that up, if you’re not predestined (eph 1) from the beggining of time, how could you ever know that you have done enough mortifications or whatever?

I hold on to col 1:24 sometimes more succesfuly than others.

There are just so many pieces of this I can’t get my arms around them. I guess the other assumption seems to be, we’ll get into pergatory and spend 1000 yearsor so. If it comes to that I would rather pay it here.

Good night, my brain is fried

 

[Augustine]

jabresnahan:

… you still need to make an enourmous amount of penances(that wasn’t his word Mortifications perhaps)

Mortifications and penances are different things.

Penances are the temporal penalties due to sin. As any penalty, their goal is to expiate guilt. For instance, saying an Act of Contrition after having commited a sin, mortal or venial. That’s what we’ll do in Purgatory, hopefully for not too long a time before meeting our Lord face-to-face.

Mortifications are acts performed to avoid sin. Their goal is to educate the will to master the passions. For instance, picking the least attractive lunch in the cafeteria to avoid the deadly sin of glutony, or looking the other way after a woman in scant clothing passes by to avoid the deadly sin of lust.

Both are related in the sense that even though one can be ellected for Heaven bearing venial sins, one will have to cleansed of them through penance in Purgatory beforehand. Thus, the fewer venial sins one has, the less time one will spend in the Purgatory get to Heaven sooner. Therefore mortifications are a tool to keep one free of venial sins.

And, of course, we all know that venial sins can lead to mortal sins. For instance, lust can easily turn into a sin against the 6th commandment, or greed can turn into a sin against the 1st commandment. That’s why of all venial sins, these, along with glutony, anger, sloth, envy and pride, are called deadly sins, as they can quickly lead to mortal ones.

Their antidotes are nothing but forms of mortifications: humility against pride, kindness against envy, abstinence against gluttony, chastity against lust, patience against anger, liberality against greed, and diligence against sloth (from deadlysins.com).

HTH