God vs. Jesus

[takers]

Growing up as a Catholic I heard/read/sang a lot about God. If we were praying, singing, talking about a savior it was about God. When I talk to Protestants they hear/read/sing about Jesus.

Why does there seem to be a difference in who the ‘main’ character, if you will, is between the two religions? Why do Protestants focus more on Jesus than God? Why do Catholics focus more on God than Jesus?

*Note: I recognize I’m making sweeping generalizations by implying “all” instead of “some” but for the sake of getting an answer I thought the generalization would be easier.

 

[Monica4316]

I’ve never noticed this… maybe that is because as a Catholic, many of the devotions I read about or practice are about Jesus. But I don’t think it matters too much because Jesus is God so if we are praying to God, we are praying to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. and if we pray to Jesus, the Father hears too. There is no “vs”.

God bless

 

[Vis_Fati]

Monica, I understand what the original poster meant. Yes, you can say that God is Jesus and Jesus is God, so when a Catholic focuses on the Father, it also communicates to the Son, etc., etc.

But there IS a distinction in focus, without a doubt. I’m not saying it makes a difference to one’s devotion, salvation, etc. But focusing on the Son comes with it the essence of His humanity, his 33 years of life, the pain of crucifixion, etc. Whereas focusing on the Father renders a focus on many more implicit intangibles. Eternity that has no root in mortality, the Infinite Mind and Face of God, etc… which ultimately can not be imagined by the mind.

Also, when one focuses on Jesus the Son, he or she focuses on the God incarnation that sacrificed Himself. And when one focuses on God the Father, he or she focuses on the Divine Creator who sent His son AS that sacrifice.

These are different meditations upon the God. Personally, my mind and spirit has always dwelled upon the Father. I think it stems from early childhood when I felt nurtured by the notion of an all-loving father. There are all the paternal things that come into play when you’re just 6-10 years old. And it just sorta stuck in me. As a 6 year old, my mind didn’t often latch itself upon the horrible pain and incomprehensible sacrifice of the Son. It did not soothe me as I lay in bed praying. All the paternal stuff just wasn’t as immediately identifiable in the latter case.

 

[Heuchler]

I really haven’t noticed this (especially since our whole mass is dedicated to worshipping Christ in the Eucharist). I think most protestants tend to focus solely on one person of the trintiy. Many focus only on Christ as it is through belief in Christ as the savior which saves them. Then you have the pentacostal faith which focuses mainly on the Holy Spirit. But I really think that if you look at most christianity you find that most focus on the persons of the trinity equally.

 

[CopticChristian]

Growing up as a Catholic I heard/read/sang a lot about God. If we were praying, singing, talking about a savior it was about God. When I talk to Protestants they hear/read/sing about Jesus.

Why does there seem to be a difference in who the ‘main’ character, if you will, is between the two religions? Why do Protestants focus more on Jesus than God? Why do Catholics focus more on God than Jesus?

*Note: I recognize I’m making sweeping generalizations by implying “all” instead of “some” but for the sake of getting an answer I thought the generalization would be easier.

In my experience I believe that I see a verbal acknowedgment of the Trinity however in practice I see most Protestants as Christocentric, speaking of the Holy Spirit as regenerative, guiding, leading…and the usual “call no man Father”…The reasons for this may be many, however since they are so focused on “getting saved” and Jesus saves that may be part of it. Another reason is the focus on “word” where “word” is always Jesus/Bible one way or another.

Catholics routinely, signing in the name of the Trinity…recall the Trinity and during the mass and other prayers we are Trinitarian, a more balanced approach in my experience. I do see Catholics that are Christocentric, Pneumocentric, and rarely Patrocentric:thumbsup:

 

[takers]

In my experience I believe that I see a verbal acknowedgment of the Trinity however in practice I see most Protestants as Christocentric, speaking of the Holy Spirit as regenerative, guiding, leading…and the usual “call no man Father”…The reasons for this may be many, however since they are so focused on “getting saved” and Jesus saves that may be part of it. Another reason is the focus on “word” where “word” is always Jesus/Bible one way or another.

Catholics routinely, signing in the name of the Trinity…recall the Trinity and during the mass and other prayers we are Trinitarian, a more balanced approach in my experience. I do see Catholics that are Christocentric, Pneumocentric, and rarely Patrocentric:thumbsup:

I’ve bolded the statement above that is what I’m talking about. I’ve been reading this book called Feminine Appeal (great book about what it means to be a Titus 2 woman) and the author frequently mentions following Jesus’ footsteps, living the life that Jesus would want us to have, etc but only infrequently mentions God. I’m also attending MOPs at a non-denominational church and have noticed the same thing. I was just curious if there was a theological explanation for the difference or if it was more cultural.

 

[fhansen]

Growing up as a Catholic I heard/read/sang a lot about God. If we were praying, singing, talking about a savior it was about God. When I talk to Protestants they hear/read/sing about Jesus.

Why does there seem to be a difference in who the ‘main’ character, if you will, is between the two religions? Why do Protestants focus more on Jesus than God? Why do Catholics focus more on God than Jesus?

*Note: I recognize I’m making sweeping generalizations by implying “all” instead of “some” but for the sake of getting an answer I thought the generalization would be easier.

There is a subtle but important distinction. If the Christian faith is about any one thing alone,* it’s about God.* From the beginning of our bible to the end, the focus is on mans lost relationship with the Lord. Jesus came for one reason: to restore that relationship. But it just so happens that this man Jesus,* is* God, because only God, Himself, has the power to fix His broken creation. And what, fundamentally, is wrong with man? Mans injustice-that which causes his disharmony- consists in the fact that he doesn’t love God with his whole heart, soul, mind, and strength-and this is why the first and greatest commandments basically tell us that we must do so. Jesus is our path to that very end-He brings the lost sheep back to the Father. In so doing, He brings them to Himself.

So in the Catholic mindset, there’s less distinction between Jesus and God because there cannot be-they’re the same-Jesus is God incarnate. Protestants know this-in their theology, at least-but, IMO, don’t recognize in quite so clear and full a sense that the Father, God, is what this is has always been about, because God is who man sinned against. Jesus just gives Him a more specific name and face. “When you’ve seen me, you’ve seen the Father”, He tells us, and, “The Father and I are one”. Now we have access to the Father, now we can know who God truly is-and His will for us.

Catholics certainly don’t minimize the role of Jesus-they just recognize the purpose of His mission here on earth somewhat better. In Protestantism the emphasis is often on ones “personal relationship with Jesus”, and our confession of faith in Him. And this is true, so long as we realize what this means-it’s not a concerted exercise of our faith in Jesus that sort of magically effects a change in our justification, rather it’s simply we Prodigals following Him back to the Father who waits with open arms, who then “works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.” Phil 2:13. The Catholic emphasis, by keeping our focus a bit more directly on God, is a more balanced and biblical view, IMO.

 

[CopticChristian]

I’ve bolded the statement above that is what I’m talking about. I’ve been reading this book called Feminine Appeal (great book about what it means to be a Titus 2 woman) and the author frequently mentions following Jesus’ footsteps, living the life that Jesus would want us to have, etc but only infrequently mentions God. I’m also attending MOPs at a non-denominational church and have noticed the same thing. I was just curious if there was a theological explanation for the difference or if it was more cultural.

I believe if you look at work from the so called “reformers” you will see that when they threw out Church Authority, Sacraments as effective, and moved on to their theology much of what they write about is the finished work of Christ. The notion is that what Christ has done is enough, we don’t need the Church, Sacramental system, etc and that was equated wrongly to “works”. So theologically that is Christocentric. Now I am not saying that being Christocentric is bad. I believe that we as Catholics are and should be Christocentric however not to the exclusion of the Trinity. Sometimes we as a Church spend time in prayer witht the Father, sometimes with the Son, sometimes with the Spirit…Jesus said he would send a comforter or another paraclete and truly our prayers theologically and properly should be to the Spirit.

For even our groans are turned into prayer by the Spirit…

 

[domandcarols]

I don’t actually find this is true at all… Or it hasn’t been my experience anyway. But interesting question.

 

[PaulDupre]

takers:

Growing up as a Catholic I heard/read/sang a lot about God. If we were praying, singing, talking about a savior it was about God. When I talk to Protestants they hear/read/sing about Jesus.

Why does there seem to be a difference in who the ‘main’ character, if you will, is between the two religions? Why do Protestants focus more on Jesus than God? Why do Catholics focus more on God than Jesus?

Did you go to mass when you were growing up? Perhaps you didn’t notice that the entire mass is a prayer to the Father through the Son.

The prayer at the consecration:
**“Through Him, with Him and in Him, in the unity of the Holy Spirit, all glory and honor is yours almighty Father forever and ever.” **(Him is Jesus)

Also, most of the Nicene creed recited at every mass is mostly about Jesus:

We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, one in being with the Father. Through Him all things were made. For us men and our salvation He came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit, He was born of the Virgin Mary , and became man. For our sake He was crucified under Pontius Pilate; He suffered, died, and was buried. On the third day He rose again in fulfillment of the scriptures: He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son, He is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets.

We believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen

I guess you weren’t paying attention.

Paul

 

[vera_dicere]

I’ve noticed this also, but generally in my family, who are Catholic charistmatic they focus a lot on Jesus. However, the majority of Catholics I know in person are “God” centred.

As for me, I tend to deal more with God rather than Jesus, even though its the same guy. But I think for me, I’m not really a “buddy buddy” kind of person, as I see a lot of people who focus on Jesus tend to be, I’m a little more logical and for lack of a better word, cold. I like the concept of the All Powerful, all knowing Father figure, who is a warrior and friend, judge and servant, and just and loving all at the same time. Plus, I also think its mainly cos my dad isn’t very well behaved, so where my earthly father has failed I seek my Heavenly one.

To generalise, I’ve also thought Catholicism was more logical, a tad more serious, and not as “happy clappy” as a lot of Protestantism. Where as a lot of Protestantism is about “me and Jesus” and that personal, almost no one else exists kind of mindset of having that “personal relationship with Jesus” and “personal saviour” business.

End of the day, its the same God, the same individual. Everyone is different, and some personality types will gravitate towards one rather than the other in this issue.

 

[Peace_of_cake]

Growing up as a Catholic I heard/read/sang a lot about God. If we were praying, singing, talking about a savior it was about God. When I talk to Protestants they hear/read/sing about Jesus.

Funny I was asking myself the same question. Good post
Some have made a good point about theological differences and the ‘personal saviour’ thing.
In addition I might add that these ‘modern’ movements are very ‘this worldly.’ it’s moving away from the mystery and transcendence of the Divine to the literal and immanent. Some mentioned Christocentric (isn’t that what Christianity really means?) but I think it’s more human centric. Things are seen in very human terms, God is reduced to making the flowers grow and only ‘nice’ things rather than our more wholistic view. Along with the modern mindset humans are made independent rather subject to our Divine Master, if you like its making humans into Gods. Jesus’ humanity is then of course a useful crutch to this equalising process.
The literal interpretations of the Bible ate again a bizarrely modern thing, meaning is jettisoned in favour of outward text. This is from the modern denial of the metaphysical. So the mystery and sacredness of our lives is lost and religion becomes as dry as the pages of a book.
Alistair McGrath (himself a protestant) wrote a really interesting book entitled The Twilight of Atheism, where he makes this point. With the modern denial of mysticism religion lost it’s capacity to capture the imagination. People started living as if God did not exist and from here it was easy to go to God doesn’t exist. The conclusion is that Protestantism gave birth to atheism!
Anyway I digress, but I think this ‘Jesus, worship him here’ slogans outside the happier clappy churches are the result of a modern interpretation where mystery and sacredness are denied and man is made the centre of the universe… In a nutshell:
God is made in man’s image

 

[JonNC]

Growing up as a Catholic I heard/read/sang a lot about God. If we were praying, singing, talking about a savior it was about God. When I talk to Protestants they hear/read/sing about Jesus.

Why does there seem to be a difference in who the ‘main’ character, if you will, is between the two religions? Why do Protestants focus more on Jesus than God? Why do Catholics focus more on God than Jesus?

*Note: I recognize I’m making sweeping generalizations by implying “all” instead of “some” but for the sake of getting an answer I thought the generalization would be easier.

Yeah, it is ageneralization. I think you’ll find in the Reformation era communions - Lutheran, Reformed, and Anglican (including Methodists) - that this is not the case.

It is interesting in our music, liturgical and hymnody, how often “Holy” or “Alleluia” are sung in threes. You might also be surprised how many of our hymns are related to or mention the Trinity, one of my favorites being, “Lord Keep us Steadfast” by Luther.

1. Lord, keep us steadfast in Thy Word;
   Curb those who fain by craft and sword
   Would wrest the Kingdom from Thy Son
   And set at naught all He hath done.
2. Lord Jesus Christ, Thy power make known,
   For Thou art Lord of lords alone;
   Defend Thy Christendom that we
   May evermore sing praise to Thee.
3. O Comforter of priceless worth.
   Send peace and unity on earth.
   Support us in our final strife
   And lead us out of death to life.

Jon

 

[CopticChristian]

Funny I was asking myself the same question. Good post
Some have made a good point about theological differences and the ‘personal saviour’ thing.
In addition I might add that these ‘modern’ movements are very ‘this worldly.’ it’s moving away from the mystery and transcendence of the Divine to the literal and immanent. Some mentioned Christocentric (isn’t that what Christianity really means?) but I think it’s more human centric. Things are seen in very human terms, God is reduced to making the flowers grow and only ‘nice’ things rather than our more wholistic view. Along with the modern mindset humans are made independent rather subject to our Divine Master, if you like its making humans into Gods. Jesus’ humanity is then of course a useful crutch to this equalising process.

The literal interpretations of the Bible ate again a bizarrely modern thing, meaning is jettisoned in favour of outward text. This is from the modern denial of the metaphysical. So the mystery and sacredness of our lives is lost and religion becomes as dry as the pages of a book.Alistair McGrath (himself a protestant) wrote a really interesting book entitled The Twilight of Atheism, where he makes this point. With the modern denial of mysticism religion lost it’s capacity to capture the imagination. People started living as if God did not exist and from here it was easy to go to God doesn’t exist. The conclusion is that Protestantism gave birth to atheism!
Anyway I digress, but I think this ‘Jesus, worship him here’ slogans outside the happier clappy churches are the result of a modern interpretation where mystery and sacredness are denied and man is made the centre of the universe… In a nutshell:
God is made in man’s image

I suggest that you write your opinions as …in my opinion.

God is seen differently by different people. To the Jew God is not Father. To the Christian God is Father. To the Muslim God is Master. The relationship with God is tethered to these beliefs…If God is Master then you are slave. If God is Father then you are a child.

In the scheme of Eternity, Christianity is 2000 years Old and if you consider that Christianity is truly Judo/Christianity then it transcends that 2000 year time frame and is as old as Creation itself…since Paul tells us that the Church, in Ephesians, was the mystery hidden for all ages…if so, then the Church is the Body of Christ and that has been there, hidden as a mystery for all ages.

On the other hand in the time frame of Creation…I agree these modern trends like Islam that have only 1500 years under their belt, Protestant thought with 500 years of thought…yes they are very worldy. We agree.

In the scheme of things who knows the mind of God…? Who knows what images God has in His mind…ie our human form…for God to imagine that and then make it visible does not cause God to create God in our image but to translate that imagined image once not seen to that seen…He did that with the Church as recorded in Ephesians…

Have you read a Bible…you can find the book in Hotels, bookstores, libraries…I know that Muhammed read it as well as other writings from the Jews…check it out.

 

[ConsciousCoward]

In my limited experience, I’ve known Catholics to be a lot more Christ-centered and Protestants to be either more God or Trinity-centered. It sounds backwards, but I’m talking about personal faith and worship, not just Mass and Protestant services.

At least, this is what I tend to hear from Catholics in personal discussion about theology and stuff. Obviously that doesn’t necessarily reflect the whole Church.

 

[Contarini]

Well, a case can be made that many evangelicals are functional Arians. One elderly couple of my acquaintance adopted Arian views and insisted to me that this was simply a logical step, since in their experience most Christians thought of Jesus as an intermediary between humans and God and not Himself God.

It’s important to note that this would apply primarily to populist evangelicals (though the couple in question were very well-educated–indeed the husband was a Biblical scholar and former seminary professor) and not so much the Reformational traditions (as someone else has already noted).

But even the Reformed tradition has a quasi-Nestorian Christology, and this has worked itself out in more radical ways in both liberal and evangelical Protestantism, both of which, on the whole, are renegade versions of Reformed Protestantism.

The positive side of all of this is that when evangelicals can keep these Arian and Nestorian tendencies in check and put their Christocentrism in the context of a robust Trinitarian theology, they have a view of the Incarnation that takes Jesus’ humanity seriously and does justice to the Biblical idea that Jesus intercedes for us with the Father. Protestants have historically worried that Mary takes the role of Jesus in Catholic piety, and this is true to some extent inasmuch as the greater Catholic focus on Jesus’ divinity may result in “kicking Jesus upstairs” and thinking of Mary rather than Jesus as the primary intercessor.

On the other hand, I often notice modern Catholics talking about “God and Jesus” (as the OP does), so there may be plenty of practical Arianism among them as well!

Edwin

 

[PJM]

=takers;8470554]Growing up as a Catholic I heard/read/sang a lot about God. If we were praying, singing, talking about a savior it was about God. When I talk to Protestants they hear/read/sing about Jesus.

Why does there seem to be a difference in who the ‘main’ character, if you will, is between the two religions? Why do Protestants focus more on Jesus than God? Why do Catholics focus more on God than Jesus?

*Note: I recognize I’m making sweeping generalizations by implying “all” instead of “some” but for the sake of getting an answer I thought the generalization would be easier.

Catholics being the ONE source for the entire truth can and do use the terms of God and Jesus interchangabley; Jesus is God; and God is Triune, but unless there is a precise need to identify Father, Son or Holy Spirit; speaking of One Divne Person, is speaking of All:thumbsup:

God Bless,
Pat

 

[takers]

Did you go to mass when you were growing up? Perhaps you didn’t notice that the entire mass is a prayer to the Father through the Son.

The prayer at the consecration:
**“Through Him, with Him and in Him, in the unity of the Holy Spirit, all glory and honor is yours almighty Father forever and ever.” **(Him is Jesus)

Also, most of the Nicene creed recited at every mass is mostly about Jesus:

I guess you weren’t paying attention.

Paul

Hi! Since you seem to be making quite a few assumptions about me and how I was raised let me clear things up for you. Yes, I did go to mass growing up. Quite frequently in fact. Paying attention to the mass was included. I also went to Catholic school for elementary years (our town didn’t have a Catholic high school, which I would have been sent to if we did).In addition, I went to CCD, participated in youth retreats, and enjoyed general youth group activities.

My question revolved around more than just what was said on Sunday for an hour. In my experience, throughout the entire week, Protestants tend to focus more on Jesus when they talk whereas the Catholics I know focus more on God. In the blogs I read, the Catholics talk about praying to God whereas the Protestants talk about praying to Jesus. I recognize the trinity and that in praying to one you’re praying to all, but since their tends to be a focus on one vs the other (in my experience) I was wondering why this was.

From other posters it sounds more like a person-by-person thing and I just happen to be globing on to those that have more Jesus, if you will, in their language choices.

 

[ConstantineTG]

In the Byzantine Rite, when we say “God” we mean the undivided Trinity.