God within creation?

[Ignatiusmeansfire]

I want help refuting or supporting my ideas below and also a discussion about the repercussions it would have if it is true.

Is God within our universe? Within creation?

I believe that God is outside of creation. But God is also in creation.
You could draw two circles. One circle stands for creation. A much larger circle stands for God. The smaller circle, creation is inside the much greater circle, which represents God.

At one time there was no smaller circle, standing for creation. God was entirely outside creation, because there was no creation. But after creation was made by God, God was there too, because God is everywhere.

If this is true, God is within all things. Is this what we define as The Holy Spirit? That penetrates all living beings as well as matter? Does God always exist in his creation? Does God therefore exist in every atom, every neuron? Does he exist in evil things?

When we recieve the Eucharist, we recieve the Body of Christ, namely God. But if God is within all things and not only in the Eucharist, how does this differ from recieving any loaf of bread?

Also if God really dwells within all things, we ought to have a much greater respect for creation then we do. It is one thing appreciating the creation as a work of God and another thing to view it AS God, or atleast partly God.

Could you help me to clarify abit of the above reasoning?

Best Regards!

 

[Vico]

…
Is God within our universe? Within creation?
…

Jesus Christ is a divine person, the Son of God, and is present in creation, the resurrected Christ. The penetration and indwelling of the three divine persons reciprocally in one another is called perichoresis.

 

[Jen7]

If this is true, God is within all things. Is this what we define as The Holy Spirit? That penetrates all living beings as well as matter? Does God always exist in his creation? Does God therefore exist in every atom, every neuron? Does he exist in evil things?

Nope. This is called pantheism. God is not “in” things (except the souls of the baptized).

 

[Jen7]

Jesus Christ is a divine person, the Son of God, and is present in creation, the resurrected Christ.

His loving gaze holds the world in existence. He has imparted life to all that lives. But He does not indwell within sunflowers, snails, my pet parakeet, or the horse I rode last spring. He does not even indwell within the souls of the unbaptized. Through baptism -and ONLY through baptism- the Holy Spirit indwells in us and we become adopted sons of God. Without this we are still God’s creatures. We still have an immortal soul. We are still made in God’s image and likeness. But He is not within us. Original sin must be washed away via baptism first. This is why baptism is a Big Deal & not just one way among many to have a relationship with God and advance towards heavenly life with Him in eternity.

 

[Vico]

Vico:

Jesus Christ is a divine person, the Son of God, and is present in creation, the resurrected Christ.

His loving gaze holds the world in existence. He has imparted life to all that lives. But He does not indwell within sunflowers, snails, my pet parakeet, or the horse I rode last spring. He does not even indwell within the souls of the unbaptized. Through baptism -and ONLY through baptism- the Holy Spirit indwells in us and we become adopted sons of God. Without this we are still God’s creatures. We still have an immortal soul. We are still made in God’s image and likeness. But He is not within us. Original sin must be washed away via baptism first. This is why baptism is a Big Deal & not just one way among many to have a relationship with God and advance towards heavenly life with Him in eternity.

Of course. Jesus Christ is present in creation in his resurrected body.

We humans partake of supernatural grace through the influence in the soul to strengthen will and intellect.

 

[Richca]

I want help refuting or supporting my ideas below and also a discussion about the repercussions it would have if it is true.

Is God within our universe? Within creation?

Yes, God is everywhere. God is not only within creation but He contains creation so creation is within him as St Paul says “In him, we live and move and have our being.”

I believe that God is outside of creation. But God is also in creation.
You could draw two circles. One circle stands for creation. A much larger circle stands for God. The smaller circle, creation is inside the much greater circle, which represents God.

We can’t draw a circle for God because a circle has a circumference and it is bounded and circumscribed. God’s being is unbounded, uncircumscribed, limitless, infinite.

At one time there was no smaller circle, standing for creation. God was entirely outside creation, because there was no creation. But after creation was made by God, God was there too, because God is everywhere.

Since God is everywhere, in a certain sense it cannot be said that God can be outside something as if he is in one place and something else in another place where God is not. Nor can God be ‘outside’ something that doesn’t even exist, for example, thinking of God being outside of creation before creation existed.

If this is true, God is within all things. Is this what we define as The Holy Spirit? That penetrates all living beings as well as matter? Does God always exist in his creation? Does God therefore exist in every atom, every neuron? Does he exist in evil things?

God is everywhere, the whole of him, in the whole universe and every part of it, large or small, similarly as our whole soul is in the whole body and whole in every part of it. God is an absolutely simple and infinite being not composed of parts such that a part of him is ‘here’ and another part of him ‘there’. The whole substance of God is everywhere.
God is said to be in all things by his power, presence, and essence. By his power inasmuch all things are subject to his power. By his presence as all things are bare and open to his eyes. By his essence, inasmuch as he is present to all as the cause of their being. He is also said to be present in a special way to rational creatures by his grace.

 

[Richca]

(continued)

When we recieve the Eucharist, we recieve the Body of Christ, namely God. But if God is within all things and not only in the Eucharist, how does this differ from recieving any loaf of bread?

God is within all things but creatures are not God. God and creatures are infinitely distinct beings. Creatures are not a part of God but finite beings he created out of nothing. The body of Christ which we receive in the eucharist is obviously not the same thing as a loaf of bread just as our own bodies are not either.

Also if God really dwells within all things, we ought to have a much greater respect for creation then we do. It is one thing appreciating the creation as a work of God and another thing to view it AS God, or atleast partly God.

Since creation came from God, yes, we ought to respect it and love it as he does. But, creation is not God nor a part of him or it would be God nor can God be divided into parts. Creatures are finite distinct beings from God created by God out of nothing.

 

[Mmarco]

I want help refuting or supporting my ideas below and also a discussion about the repercussions it would have if it is true.

Is God within our universe? Within creation?

No, God is not within the universe because He totally transcends the physical reality. Consider the following analogy; you can conceive an idea (for example a unicorn); such idea does not exist by itself but it exists only in your mind when you think about it. However, it would be wrong to say that you exists within your idea; this simply makes no sense. You have a totally different nature from an idea; you are a living conscious person and the idea is neither living, nor conscious nor a person. You are the cause of your own ideas but you are not within your ideas. In the same way, the universe does not exists by itself, but it exists only because God conceives it. God is the cause of the universe but He is not within the universe. The universe exists in God like an idea can exists in your mind ; God totally trascends the physical reality and He is not within the physical reality.

 

[Julius_Caesar]

He is only within those who have faith in Him and His Son.

 

[lelinator]

He is only within those who have faith in Him and His Son.

Wherever there’s compassion, He’s there. Wherever there’s forgiveness, He’s there. Wherever there’s hope, and perseverance, and mercy, and humility…and love…He’s there.

He’s always there. It’s just that in our weakness, sometimes we make Him very hard to see.

The amazing thing is, that the better you get at seeing God in others, the easier it’ll be for them to see God in you.

 

[Julius_Caesar]

Wherever there’s compassion, He’s there. Wherever there’s forgiveness, He’s there. Wherever there’s hope, and perseverance, and mercy, and humility…and love…

There’s a difference between natural and supernatural virtue.

And supernatural virtue only comes with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Hence, only those with God’s Spirit can be truly said to have God.

 

[lelinator]

And supernatural virtue only comes with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Hence, only those with God’s Spirit can be truly said to have God.

But what makes this so sad, isn’t that God’s not there, in every act of love, and in every act of forgiveness, it’s that you can’t see Him.

 

[Julius_Caesar]

But what makes this so sad

Truth is often a bitter pill to swallow. And the Truth is in the absence of Christ, which is the default state of everyone, our good deeds are like filthy rags.