God's anger

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Hi all,

I was reading my copy of the Good News Bible last night in bed, and read the following passage…

Ephesians 5 vs 6
Do not let anyone deceive you with foolish words; it is because of these very things that God’s anger will come upon those who do not obey him (this version also doesnt have the capital H here).

This passage goes on to say not to have anything to do with such people, as they are in the darkness, and Jesus has shown us the Light.

Firstly, I have been led to believe that God never gets angry at us, rather He is sorrowful when we turn away from Him, and sin, and He dances for joy when we confess and repent.

Secondly, if I was to follow this letter from St Paul, I wouldnt have anyone really to hang around with.

I dont know of anyone that is always in constant reflection of God.

Can someone please help me understand God’s love and anger?
Or understand fully what St Paul was telling us to do.

Love Kellie
 
God is mysterious…and he can become angry as well.

“Fear of God” is the beginning of wisdom. IMHO

Although I think you are correct…if we hoestly repent of our sins he has said he will forgive us.

Peace
 
In the NAB translation, it reads:

“Let no one deceive you with empty arguments, for because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the disobedient.”

In the footnotes, it mentions that the “disobedient” is actually, translated more literally, “the sons of disobedience.” And then it refers you to Is 30:9

“This is a rebellious people, deceitful children, Children who refuse to obey the law of the Lord.”

Taking this into account, Paul is talking about people who knowingly and willingly disobey the Lord and he says not to associate yourself with anyone who “refuses to obey the law of the Lord.” I would say that this is a reasonable request. I would not associate myself with anyone who would knowingly and willfully engaged in sinful activity and I would not let my (soon to be) wife or (future) children associate themselves with those sorts of people either.

Now, Jesus DID associate himself with sinners, but these were people who were repenting and were wanting to change their ways. Paul is talking about people who are not willing to change their ways and continue to deceive and disobey.
 
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funkyhorn:
Taking this into account, Paul is talking about people who knowingly and willingly disobey the Lord and he says not to associate yourself with anyone who “refuses to obey the law of the Lord.” I would say that this is a reasonable request. I would not associate myself with anyone who would knowingly and willfully engaged in sinful activity and I would not let my (soon to be) wife or (future) children associate themselves with those sorts of people either.
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My friend has got engaged to a nice guy. She is divorced ,and a Catholic, but drifted away from the Church a long time ago.
Her and this guy are living together. They have no intention of coming back to Church, they have told me.
So am I meant to give up our friendship as she is disobeying God wilfully?? We have been friends for over 20 years.

Love Kellie
 
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kellie:
So am I meant to give up our friendship as she is disobeying God wilfully?? We have been friends for over 20 years.

Love Kellie
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Hate the sin and love the sinner!
 
I disagree that God becomes angry, as we know anger. God is a spirit. We are beings of emotion. The words are given to us in a way that we can understand them. In other words, God is love, God is mercy, and God is just. God’s justice will be manifest at a certain point that only God knows. This justice is disciplinary, and can probably be best explained as our human minds can understand it as anger.

The Bible also talks about other body parts of God. Of course, these are ways of explaining God so we can understand Him more clearly, but it does not mean God has hands and feet, and a back, etc.
 
Kellie,

Many of the people I worked with (in the coaching profession) were this way, so a friend and I began saying, “Be friends with sinners, don’t sin with sinners!”

I would live my life as the best example possible for the Lord. Her life, like everyone else’s, will suffer tough times. Hopefully, your steady will and friendship will appeal to her, and she may come back to the faith. Ask the Holy Spirit for assistance…it may take 5, 10, or 20 years which is a relatively short conversion when compared to eternity. If you choose not to give your friendship - you cannot help her. Which leads back to my quote at the beginning.

Come Holy Spirit - I’ll pray for her.
 
There was some discussion in another post about the “OT God” and the “NT God” as if They were two different deities.

While it is true that God has revealed more of himself in the NT and in the magisterium of the Church, and our God is rightly called a “merciful God,” do not make the fatal mistake of confusing “merciful” with “nice.” There is but one God, and nothing revealed in the NT changes what was revealed of God in the OT.

Even in the NT we are occasionally presented with a God who is, well, God-like and not a happy dancer. Take, for instance, the Book of Revelations. When John is brought to Heaven and he beholds Jesus in His new form, we aren’t told that Jesus starts dancing with joy at the sight of John. We are told that John fell down on his face as if dead.

We are also told that sins against the Holy Spirit are unforgiveable. As the catechism teaches, “‘Whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgivness, but is guilty of an eternal sin.’ [Mk. 3:29; Mt. 12:32; Lk. 12:10] There are no limits to the mercy of God, but anyone who deliberately refuses to accept his mercy by repenting, rejects the forgiveness of his sins and the salvation offered by the Holy Spirit. [John Paul II, DeV 46] Such hardness of heart can lead to final impenitence and eternal loss.”

Looking upon this, you might believe that God would be “angry” at such a sinner. Maybe so. We are always eligible for God’s mercy, but I have no doubt that we can incur the wrath of God, as well.
 
God is love. How then could he feel anger? I think Origen explains the issue beautifully (and I know that he entertained some heterodox ideas, but I’m rather confident that along these lines, as in most, Origen is very orthodox) here:
ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-04/anf04-47.htm
where he talks about God hardening Pharaoh’s heart. It sounds at face value that God desires that Pharaoh commit evil deeds. But this does not square with our understanding of God’s infinite mercy and love. Indeed, that’s because we should not assume perfect literalism in the text. The old testament is filled with anthropomorphisms, and the Israelites who read and wrote the old testament texts knew this. They might not have had the fullest understanding of God’s nature, but they certainly understood that God did not have wings (one of the psalms refers to God’s wings) nor need we believe God literally experiences anger.

Origen puts it like this: all of God’s actions flow out in love, and He never suffers this love to be altered in its course or its nature. God is perfect and constant. However, the same love may feel to two different persons like two different things. God’s love is beautiful to the righteous and horrific to the unrighteous. He uses this analogy. The rays of the sun are always the same in intensity and fall the same, indiscriminately on all things. Bur the nature of the thing it falls upon causes its effect to be experienced quite differently. If Sunlight falls on wax, the wax will melt. However when it falls on mud, the mud dries up and cracks. This is how it was with pharaoh. God did effectively harden his heart as the story says, but it was not out of anger. God shines down the same love upon pharaoh as he does upon his chosen people. But it is because pharaoh’s heart was like mud and not like wax that he felt it harden his heart instead of soften it.

In this same way, when we read of God’s anger, I take it to be an anthropomorphised expression. God’s love will feel like wrath to one who is not properly disposed to enter into its presence.

I hope that’s useful. Please correct me where I’m wrong.
 
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