God's control (intervention, purpose, and fortune)

[lauramelissa]

Hi everyone!

A friend and I have just been having a discussion, which basically boils down to God’s power and his control vs. how often he exercises that power. I’m curious to see what a few people here think regarding this topic because a) I have my own reservations concerning a lot of related topics such as pre-destination and b) it seems like it might be good to see where people draw the line between what God may or may not intervene in.

To further clarify, we were talking specifically about suffering and the viewpoints both religious and non-religious people hold on it. From a religious standpoint, God may not intervene in tragedies involving death or severe injury because he knows that the risk exists. Also, that if we lived in a world where nothing bad ever happened to people, it would be like living in Heaven. From a non-religious standpoint, it is often argued that if God does love us all, then it seems a bit contradictory that he would allow death to befall the innocent, children to starve in poor countries, etc especially considering he is supposed to be all-powerful.

It seems like the big divide on this topic comes from the difference between those who believe we are predestined and those who think the exact opposite. What’s interesting, is both seem to take comfort in their respective ideas: a) that there is a plan, and reason in store for life and b) there isn’t someone determining when my life will end.

So… in short. How much control does God have, and how does he exercise it? (Does he cause each and every pregnancy that happens, for instance, and if so, how, considering we all have free will?) If he does have complete control, why doesn’t he intervene and prevent the deaths of innocents, whether they be by accident, murder, etc?

Thanks!

 

[Miles_Militis]

A friend and I have just been having a discussion, which basically boils down to God’s power and his control vs. how often he exercises that power. I’m curious to see what a few people here think regarding this topic because a) I have my own reservations concerning a lot of related topics such as pre-destination and b) it seems like it might be good to see where people draw the line between what God may or may not intervene in.

Short and sweet answer: God **can **intervene in any way at any time, but God chooses not to.

From a religious standpoint, God may not intervene in tragedies involving death or severe injury because he knows that the risk exists.

I’m sorry but this is a very unclear sentence. What risk exists?

Also, that if we lived in a world where nothing bad ever happened to people, it would be like living in Heaven.

So? I believe what you mean to describe is something like Eden. What is so wrong with that?

From a non-religious standpoint, it is often argued that if God does love us all, then it seems a bit contradictory that he would allow death to befall the innocent, children to starve in poor countries, etc especially considering he is supposed to be all-powerful.

No more contradictory then a responsible parent who steps back and allows their fully grown child to make their own decisions (& thereby suffer any consequences) out of love. Just the reverse is true. If God did not allow us to make our own choices and suffer the consequences then He would not truly love us. Either that or He would be a fool to think that we can love without choice. I personally don’t think God is a fool.

The suffering in this world is due to choices of man. God merely allows us to make our own choices.

“As Augustine says (Enchiridion xi): “Since God is the highest good, He would not allow any evil to exist in His works, unless His omnipotence and goodness were such as to bring good even out of evil.” This is part of the infinite goodness of God, that He should allow evil to exist, and out of it produce good.”

newadvent.org/summa/1002.htm (scroll to the bottom where it says “Reply to Objection 1”)

So… in short. How much control does God have, and how does he exercise it?

God has complete and utter authority (power to control). He however chooses not to exercise it out of His love for us and His desire for our love (we cannot love Him without the ability to choose Him).

(Does he cause each and every pregnancy that happens, for instance, and if so, how, considering we all have free will?)

No. He set up the rules, when we do our thing, God blesses our actions with life as the natural consequence of sexual intercourse.

If he does have complete control, why doesn’t he intervene and prevent the deaths of innocents, whether they be by accident, murder, etc?

If God intervened we would have no choice. If we cannot choose then we are not free. If we are not free we cannot love. God desires us to love and be loved. Therefore out of love, and in hope of love returned, God allows us free will to choose a given action. But with any choice there are consequences, sometimes good, other times evil. Part of giving us freedom is allowing us to suffer any consequences we incur by virtue of our actions.