God's Fire?

[DPMartin]

Just what is God’s Fire? Some say the Holy Ghost, some say the wrath if God, and Apostle Paul says: Heb:12:29: For our God is a consuming fire.

Consider: at the burning bush why didn’t the bush burn but yet Moses had to remove his shoes for he was to be standing on Holy Ground? And if God’s fire is wrath, then how is it on the mountains Moses stood in it?

 

[byeveryword]

Just what is God’s Fire? Some say the Holy Ghost, some say the wrath if God, and Apostle Paul says: Heb:12:29: For our God is a consuming fire.

Consider: at the burning bush why didn’t the bush burn but yet Moses had to remove his shoes for he was to be standing on Holy Ground? And if God’s fire is wrath, then how is it on the mountains Moses stood in it?

Good question. “Be ye holy, for I am holy” comes to mind. None of us would be able to stand in the presence of our holy God without being purified of our sins, our sinful attitudes, and sinful inclinations. Perhaps, this is how the idea of purgatory came into being.

 

[passus]

I don’t think a single such thing exists as “God’s fire.” Fire is used metaphorically to describe and as a representation of God throughout Scripture and I think there could definitely be more than one meaning to this metaphor of God as fire. All of your examples are correct.

 

[Bohm_Bawerk]

Just what is God’s Fire? Some say the Holy Ghost, some say the wrath if God, and Apostle Paul says: Heb:12:29: For our God is a consuming fire.

Consider: at the burning bush why didn’t the bush burn but yet Moses had to remove his shoes for he was to be standing on Holy Ground? And if God’s fire is wrath, then how is it on the mountains Moses stood in it?

What is meant by God being described as a “consuming fire” (Hebrews 12:29) is that God is so Good that if you stood in His presence, you would burn and even die. It’s actually for this reason that modern theologians maintain that God doesn’t technically send people to Hell. On the contrary, people send themselves to Hell, as they will not be able to stand God’s holiness and therefore have to fleet.

Using the example of Moses, even earlier on in the Epistle to the Hebrews does it mention that Moses said “I am exceedingly afraid and trembling” in the sight of the LORD. So God is described as a consuming fire because to be in His midst would kill us whilst we are in a state of sin. Only until we are without sin - and the temporal effects of sin - can we enjoy the presence of God.

 

[ltwin]

I think the earlier poster who said fire is used in many different ways in scripture is correct. The Bible talks about God being a consuming fire, John refers to Jesus baptizing in the Holy Spirit and with fire, the Bible talks about fire in the sense of cleansing and purifying, etc. There are many meanings. Fire speaks of light, power, cleansing, and judgement. It has many different meanings. When people say the “fire of God” I guess it depends on the context the person is using it in.

 

[DPMartin]

Good question. “Be ye holy, for I am holy” comes to mind. None of us would be able to stand in the presence of our holy God without being purified of our sins, our sinful attitudes, and sinful inclinations. Perhaps, this is how the idea of purgatory came into being.

byeveryword
thanks for the reply

Being rase a Catholic, purgatory is not something I remember much about. It would seem you’d have to consult the Catholic Catechism for that, and the supporting theology, which is available.

Your reference to “Be ye Holy, for I am Holy” is excellent. How would one be Holy without going through the Fire of Purification first. If God tells the living to be Holy, then that posses is for now, not so much when one passes on, it would seem.

 

[DPMartin]

I don’t think a single such thing exists as “God’s fire.” Fire is used metaphorically to describe and as a representation of God throughout Scripture and I think there could definitely be more than one meaning to this metaphor of God as fire. All of your examples are correct.

passus
thanks for the reply

Though I believe I understand your view as far as “metaphorically”, but I don’t believe the Lord God is inconsistent, therefore many generations of believers that have a relationship with God and His Work, almost always speak of God’s Fire. So I don’t think, it’s a metaphor or “myth like”, but a reality not to be ignored. Being baptized in the Holy Spirit is not a metaphor, therefore nether would being baptize by Fire, would be a metaphor.

I believe we should understand what is to burn in the Fire and what will not burn in the Fire.

 

[DPMartin]

What is meant by God being described as a “consuming fire” (Hebrews 12:29) is that God is so Good that if you stood in His presence, you would burn and even die. It’s actually for this reason that modern theologians maintain that God doesn’t technically send people to Hell. On the contrary, people send themselves to Hell, as they will not be able to stand God’s holiness and therefore have to fleet.

Using the example of Moses, even earlier on in the Epistle to the Hebrews does it mention that Moses said “I am exceedingly afraid and trembling” in the sight of the LORD. So God is described as a consuming fire because to be in His midst would kill us whilst we are in a state of sin. Only until we are without sin - and the temporal effects of sin - can we enjoy the presence of God.

Bohm Bawerk
thanks for the reply

So then how does one get out of the state of sin? Did Moses walk in the state of sin, or the state of Holiness? Did Apostle Paul walk in state of sin, or the state of Holiness? How is it that Paul not only said, but knew without a doubt, that our God is a consuming Fire?

 

[TimothyH]

byeveryword
thanks for the reply

Being rase a Catholic, purgatory is not something I remember much about. It would seem you’d have to consult the Catholic Catechism for that, and the supporting theology, which is available.

Your reference to “Be ye Holy, for I am Holy” is excellent. How would one be Holy without going through the Fire of Purification first. If God tells the living to be Holy, then that posses is for now, not so much when one passes on, it would seem.

I wrote a short paper on Purgatory which is available here.

-Tim-

 

[DPMartin]

I think the earlier poster who said fire is used in many different ways in scripture is correct. The Bible talks about God being a consuming fire, John refers to Jesus baptizing in the Holy Spirit and with fire, the Bible talks about fire in the sense of cleansing and purifying, etc. There are many meanings. Fire speaks of light, power, cleansing, and judgement. It has many different meanings. When people say the “fire of God” I guess it depends on the context the person is using it in.

ltwin

thanks for the reply
At the burning bush I don’t think fire was used, nor was it used when Moses was on the mountain. Nor baptized by Fire, nor tongues of Fire. It is attribute and result of God’s Presence.

As far as context of user, I would say place of the viewer. The Fire of God is dreaded by those who dishonor God and His Presence and His Work. But it is not dreaded by those who honor God’s Presence and Work.

 

[Heuchler]

A consuming fire brings to mind a powerful, unstoppable force. I believe the “fire” itself would have to be the nature of God. The way that God is. His actions resemble this fire in that we can’t stop or confine him. We can resist him all we want but in the end we can’t stop the raging fire. That is why we are told in Hebrews 12:28 to treat God with praise, reverence, and awe, because if we don’t we will be subject to a consuming fire after our death.

I believe a better analogy for the cleansing in purgatory would be God’s title of a refiner’s fire. It will be hard, our life may be filled with suffering, but this fire of suffering will bend our wills to God’s will. This fire will make us into the beautiful pieces of art God has designed us to be and all we have to do is subject ourselves to this fire and not resist its cleansing burn.

 

[DPMartin]

A consuming fire brings to mind a powerful, unstoppable force. I believe the “fire” itself would have to be the nature of God. The way that God is. His actions resemble this fire in that we can’t stop or confine him. We can resist him all we want but in the end we can’t stop the raging fire. That is why we are told in Hebrews 12:28 to treat God with praise, reverence, and awe, because if we don’t we will be subject to a consuming fire after our death.

I believe a better analogy for the cleansing in purgatory would be God’s title of a refiner’s fire. It will be hard, our life may be filled with suffering, but this fire of suffering will bend our wills to God’s will. This fire will make us into the beautiful pieces of art God has designed us to be and all we have to do is subject ourselves to this fire and not resist its cleansing burn.

Heuchler
thanks for the reply

Cor:3:13: Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is.
14: If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15: If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

In this, what seems that Paul is saying is, the same that saves you, is the same that tries the work whether it be of God the Father’s Work or not. I believe the clue to this can be found in Cain and Abel. Reason being, that Cain may have expected respect for his work offered. And Abel may have been offering, in respect to God’s Work. And both offerings were by fire, that tried not so much, the offering, but who offered it.