God's law on man's heart

[frangiuliano115]

For sure there are distinctions between the Natural, Edenic and Mosaic Laws. And also Canon Law. And, roughly speaking, these laws correspond with the various Covenants God has made with man. And it’s also true that man has been at odds with these laws virtually from the beginning of his creation.

We can also see that there are varying levels of the law. All law governs how we behave. All law does. Even physical and scientific laws. The nature of a law is that it is a rule of behaviour laid down by a competent and legitimate authority. This is why God’s law is the highest, because He is the highest and most competent authority.

All law, moreover, must agree with all higher laws, otherwise such lower laws are pretending to have greater authority than they actually do. Such pretension leads to the violation of true law, which is God’s law, and therefore sin.

You will notice there are different degrees of oversight that these various laws have over human behaviour. I believe the level of progressive oversight looks something like this, ranging from the least oversight to the most:

1. Edenic Law
2. Natural Law
3. Canon Law
4. Mosaic Law

Edenic Law was simple; there was only one command: do not partake of the knowledge of good and evil. I generally take that to mean, “Do not sin.” But how could they sin, if there were no other stated laws? The answer should be manifestly simple: God’s law was already written on their hearts. Adam and Eve had friendship with God. They had no inclination to sin. They were simply inclined to goodness, to obedience. They didn’t need to be told “don’t do this, or do that.” They did not sin because they didn’t want to, and they did good because they wanted to, not because they had to be told.

After they sinned, however, their natures were damaged. They became inclined to sin. And with each passing generation, they became more deeply wicked. This is why the Mosaic law was given. It governed every aspect of their lives. It was especially concerned with cleansing laws, and how to make one acceptable before God.

But, the heart of man was still inclined to sin. The Mosaic Law was intended to reform man, but the result was only an outward reformation, a reformation of behaviour, but not of the heart.

When Jesus came, He exposed this hypocrisy. He lived a righteous live according to the Mosaic Law, but not because He HAD to, but because He WANTED to. And in this, He was alike to the first Adam in his original creation.

In the Canon Law of the New Covenant, cleansing laws have been done away with, as we have received the Sacraments to accomplish this, and no longer by our own power, but by allowing God to cleanse us. We still have laws to govern our behaviour, but they are broader, less specific. They are more like principles to live by, whereby we have the ability to judge for ourselves how to act under various circumstances. It does contain specific laws, to be sure, but these are far and away fewer than those of the Mosaic Law.

We also have access to Sanctifying Grace in the New Covenant. This is due to Christ’s own sacrifice. And with that Sanctifying Grace, we are made more like Jesus, less concupiscencial and desiring more and more to please God from our hearts. We, once again, have friendship with God.

It is not like Eden, though. We still suffer the effects of concupiscence. So we still need Canon Law. But the transformation that the Holy Spirit renders in us makes us less and less in need of that Law. Canon Law is designed to draw us out of concupiscence, rather than just kind of dealing with it, as it is.

Simply stated, the law of God that is written on the heart of man is that same law that was given to Adam in the Garden: “do not partake of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.” Do not sin. Do not harm our relationship. Live in harmony with Him who created you. Live in harmony with each other. Live in harmony with creation. This is what I created you for. This is our conscience. This is the simple law that governs all laws that have come after it.

Love God with your whole being. Love each other as yourself.

Adam and Eve simply broke this law, even though it was written on their hearts.

You speak of laws and I’ve taught the covenants but I’m sure we’re speaking about the same thing but using different words.

Of course you explain everything beautifully.

I just can’t get around the fact that the big difference between the old cov. (Mosaic) and the New Covenant is the matter of the heart. This can be supported by the CCC as quoted by flansen.

I won’t quote Jeremiah again although that is where the New Covenant is found (31:31-34). I think I already said that it speaks of writing the law on the heart; maybe in a more literal sense than how you understand that it was written on Adam’s heart?

I used to like to ask, If the Old Cov. comes from the O.T., where does the N.C. come from? And the answer would be the New Testament, but, of course, it comes from the Old Testament. God prepared a way of salvation for us from the beginning of time. (Genesis 3:15). That salvation being the Lord Jesus and through Him we the law in our heart. Which we can call grace, or sanctifying grace.

I also like what you say:

**The nature of a law is that it is a rule of behaviour laid down by a competent and legitimate authority. This is why God’s law is the highest, because He is the highest and most competent authority.
**

I’m afraid our society is getting away from this, but that’s another story.

It was nice of you to expound on my post. So much to be said!

God bless you

 

[frangiuliano115]

Well, yes, the Old Covenant teaches us that, while the Law is holy, spiritual ,and good, and man is obligated to obey it, man cannot obey it. And the New Covenant reveals the reason and provides the answer. Man can’t obey the Law because he is not spiritual in a sense; man is made for communion with God, from Whom he’s been separated since the fall…and, “Apart from Me you can do nothing” (John 15:5). Jesus came to reconcile man with God, to atone, bringing about “at-one-ment”, so that God may truly become our God again (Jer 31:34), and so then He may do a work in us (Jer 31:33.

IOW, man doesn’t need to prove his righteousness or holiness first of all in order to have communion with God, rather *man must have communion with God first of all in order to be righteous/holy. *So we approach God with faith, in response to grace, in response to His calling, and we become forgiven and cleansed in the waters of Baptism. Made new, grace restored- communion with God restored- so that He may dwell within as was always intended-as is the right and just order of things. He is the source of our holiness, not ourselves. Once the inside is cleansed the outside will be clean as well.

How edifying your post is! Many people believe that you have to become “good” and then you go to God; but, as you explain, you go to God first and THEN you become “good” because only through Him is this possible.

Yes, now God can dwell within. The tabernacle lost its usefulness and the temple was destroyed twice, but now we are the temple of God!

God’s laws are now written on the heart - and Jesus is the author.

The new and everlasting covenant - available to all and for all eternity.

Thanks also for posting the CCC.

God bless you

 

[billcu1]

These terms confuse me I will say that.

natural law, Canon law, doctrine, dogma, infallibility.

Now these are all different levels of things. Some things of the church too like dogma, ecumenical or synodic decisions ,whew.

 

[MrSnaith]

These terms confuse me I will say that.

natural law, Canon law, doctrine, dogma, infallibility.

Now these are all different levels of things. Some things of the church too like dogma, ecumenical or synodic decisions ,whew.

Natural Law: Rules for human behaviour that can be determined from the study of creation.

Canon Law: The body of laws that governs the behaviour of members of the Universal (Catholic) Church.

Doctrine: The body of Divinely revealed truths that is held and taught by the Magesterium and the Church.

Dogma: Those particular doctrines that have been declared Ex Cathedra by the Pope during times when said doctrines were under widespread dispute.

Infallibility: This is a unique character held by the Papal Office singularly (Seat of Peter), the body of Bishops as a whole in concensus (Magesterium), and by the Church Universal (Sensus Fidelium). It prevents each of these groups from holding and teaching errors in matters of Faith and Morals as true, under particular circumstances.

Cheers!

 

[frangiuliano115]

These terms confuse me I will say that.

natural law, Canon law, doctrine, dogma, infallibility.

Now these are all different levels of things. Some things of the church too like dogma, ecumenical or synodic decisions ,whew.

billcu1,

Are you a new catholic? Or one that has always been catholic but has become interested in knowing his faith? I’m afraid that too many people that go to church every Sunday know very little of the catholic faith. So I feel that it’s a good thing to understand what you believe in.

All you really need to know is that Jesus died for your sins and if you follow him, you’ll get to heaven.

You’ll also find, quicky enough, that the more you learn, the more you realize how little you really know! So don’t feel badly about not knowing all the terms.

Here’s a quick lesson and others will help out, I’m sure.

Natural Law: A law that everyone could believe in, even atheists believe in the natural law. A law that comes naturally to man and pushes him to know what is good and makes him want to do that good. Simplistic explanation - keep studying!

Canon Law: The “legal” laws of the church. For instance, rules pertaining to priests, deacons, marriage, divorce - who can do what, where, when and why. I know practically nothing about this and is a branch unto itself that is studied for years by the church’s legal administration.

Doctrine: A doctrine is a belief that a denomination holds to be true. Every church has its own doctrines. These are the beliefs that one would want to check out before joining any church - for instance a protestant church (they have different doctrines although fundamentally the christian beliefs are the same).

For instance what we’re discussing re Adam having, or not having, the law in his heart is a doctrine.

Dogma: This is a declaration made by the magisterium of the catholic; a declaration from a council (like the council of nicea or the Second Vatican council) declaring what one MUST believe to be catholic.

A couple of dogma of the catholic church are: Mary’s assumption into heaven/the belief in puratory/The Holy Trinity - and many others. Oh. Let’s not forget transubstantiation (the host changing into the body and blood of Christ).

Infallibility: The Pope is not ALWAYS infallible. As is proven by some statements the Pope has made lately which then have to be explained or retracted. But when the Pope makes a declaration, with the authority given to him as Pope, we consider that it is the Holy Spirit speaking and in this sense he is infallible. This is called ex-cathedra.

Here’s what I’d say, not knowing anything about you.

Read your bible! Start with one of the gospels, maybe Mathew would be my pick. Then John. Then read Romans and Hebrews. Get into the old testament a bit and then back to the new. The old testament is awaiting it’s fulfillment in the new, and the new testament is based on the old. You can’t really understand the new testament unless you know the old; after all, the first christians were jewish and they knew their scriptures.

After this you can read the catechism of the catholic church but warning! It’s not so easy to understand. Read some good books. Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis is the best explanation of christianity I have ever read. He was protestant but all he says is fine, no problem. How about Death on a Friday Afternoon by John Neuhause. Practically any book by Scott Hahn. There are so many.

But most important of all: Know Jesus. Follow Him. Put your faith in Him. Love Him and serve Him.

All the rest will come in time. I’ve been at this for 40 years and I still feel like I know very little!!

God bless you on your journey
Fran

 

[billcu1]

billcu1,

Are you a new catholic? Or one that has always been catholic but has become interested in knowing his faith? I’m afraid that too many people that go to church every Sunday know very little of the catholic faith. So I feel that it’s a good thing to understand what you believe in.

All you really need to know is that Jesus died for your sins and if you follow him, you’ll get to heaven.

You’ll also find, quicky enough, that the more you learn, the more you realize how little you really know! So don’t feel badly about not knowing all the terms.

Here’s a quick lesson and others will help out, I’m sure.

Natural Law: A law that everyone could believe in, even atheists believe in the natural law. A law that comes naturally to man and pushes him to know what is good and makes him want to do that good. Simplistic explanation - keep studying!

Canon Law: The “legal” laws of the church. For instance, rules pertaining to priests, deacons, marriage, divorce - who can do what, where, when and why. I know practically nothing about this and is a branch unto itself that is studied for years by the church’s legal administration.

Doctrine: A doctrine is a belief that a denomination holds to be true. Every church has its own doctrines. These are the beliefs that one would want to check out before joining any church - for instance a protestant church (they have different doctrines although fundamentally the christian beliefs are the same).

For instance what we’re discussing re Adam having, or not having, the law in his heart is a doctrine.

Dogma: This is a declaration made by the magisterium of the catholic; a declaration from a council (like the council of nicea or the Second Vatican council) declaring what one MUST believe to be catholic.

A couple of dogma of the catholic church are: Mary’s assumption into heaven/the belief in puratory/The Holy Trinity - and many others. Oh. Let’s not forget transubstantiation (the host changing into the body and blood of Christ).

Infallibility: The Pope is not ALWAYS infallible. As is proven by some statements the Pope has made lately which then have to be explained or retracted. But when the Pope makes a declaration, with the authority given to him as Pope, we consider that it is the Holy Spirit speaking and in this sense he is infallible. This is called ex-cathedra.

Here’s what I’d say, not knowing anything about you.

Read your bible! Start with one of the gospels, maybe Mathew would be my pick. Then John. Then read Romans and Hebrews. Get into the old testament a bit and then back to the new. The old testament is awaiting it’s fulfillment in the new, and the new testament is based on the old. You can’t really understand the new testament unless you know the old; after all, the first christians were jewish and they knew their scriptures.

After this you can read the catechism of the catholic church but warning! It’s not so easy to understand. Read some good books. Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis is the best explanation of christianity I have ever read. He was protestant but all he says is fine, no problem. How about Death on a Friday Afternoon by John Neuhause. Practically any book by Scott Hahn. There are so many.

But most important of all: Know Jesus. Follow Him. Put your faith in Him. Love Him and serve Him.

All the rest will come in time. I’ve been at this for 40 years and I still feel like I know very little!!

God bless you on your journey
Fran

I’ve been Catholic for several years now. I came in through RCIA when Benedict was Pope. And that is the 16th. I’ve heard these terms and not knew or had described to me their meaning. Others didn’t want to tell me or didn’t know. I’m wondering too now if this latest Encyclical is infallible. Or if they have to be declared to be by the Bishops or the Pontiff. I’ve also heard God’s law is on man hearts and if let up to man normally he would be good. But now there’s sin involved.

 

[frangiuliano115]

I’ve been Catholic for several years now. I came in through RCIA when Benedict was Pope. And that is the 16th. I’ve heard these terms and not knew or had described to me their meaning. Others didn’t want to tell me or didn’t know. I’m wondering too now if this latest Encyclical is infallible. Or if they have to be declared to be by the Bishops or the Pontiff. I’ve also heard God’s law is on man hearts and if let up to man normally he would be good. But now there’s sin involved.

Hello billcu!

I’m in a different time zone and it’s really late here.

The latest encyclical is not infallible.

Check in tomorrow for the rest of the story…!

God bless
Fran

 

[frangiuliano115]

I’ve been Catholic for several years now. I came in through RCIA when Benedict was Pope. And that is the 16th. I’ve heard these terms and not knew or had described to me their meaning. Others didn’t want to tell me or didn’t know. I’m wondering too now if this latest Encyclical is infallible. Or if they have to be declared to be by the Bishops or the Pontiff. I’ve also heard God’s law is on man hearts and if let up to man normally he would be good. But now there’s sin involved.

You know, I like to say that RCIA is like learning how to drive. First you have to get a license and then you have to REALLY learn how to drive.

I don’t believe that people you have asked to explain things to you did not want to answer you. The problem is that they probably didn’t know the answer! Most catholics are not very familiar with their faith because they were born into the religion, went to catechism classes till the age of 11 or 12, and then, as adults, never did anymore studying. So you probably know more than they do.

A lot also depends on the RCIA instructor. I can only say that it’s impossible to cover everything in a year and they can only do the best they can. Priests study continually every day for 7 years to learn as much as possible, and then it’s also a life process - like being a doctor.

You can use this forum too but how about trying to join some church group that you enjoy? It could be a prayer group or maybe a bible study group or a catechism study group. It could even be in a different parish.

Also, I had said to read the bible. Maybe you could buy a good commentary to go along with it since some passages are a bit difficult to really understand. But God also uses the bible to speak to you personally so you should read it a lot.

Also, don’t be too confused when we posters sometimes don’t agree with each other to the last minute point. Like phansen posted the CCC to show that the law is on man’s heart. I said it’s been there only since the New Covenant. Well, fhansen is quoting the natural law, also it depends on how you understand “heart”. I studied and taught the most important covenants, about 6 or 7, and didn’t come across the law being in the heart until the New Covenant. But it’s a silly point to argue. And the CCC could have been a bit more simple! But did you read all those beautiful things fhansen said? And that’s what really counts! So don’t get too confused by these posts.

The only other thing I can say is this:

It’s not WHAT you know
It’s WHO you know! Jesus Christ. Keep your eyes on Him.

I’m sorry if I carried on. Having been involved with 3 different parishes till only last year, I see firsthand how our church would need to have more teaching.

I hope this has helped a little.

God bless you

 

[billcu1]

You know, I like to say that RCIA is like learning how to drive. First you have to get a license and then you have to REALLY learn how to drive.

I don’t believe that people you have asked to explain things to you did not want to answer you. The problem is that they probably didn’t know the answer! Most catholics are not very familiar with their faith because they were born into the religion, went to catechism classes till the age of 11 or 12, and then, as adults, never did anymore studying. So you probably know more than they do.

A lot also depends on the RCIA instructor. I can only say that it’s impossible to cover everything in a year and they can only do the best they can. Priests study continually every day for 7 years to learn as much as possible, and then it’s also a life process - like being a doctor.

You can use this forum too but how about trying to join some church group that you enjoy? It could be a prayer group or maybe a bible study group or a catechism study group. It could even be in a different parish.

Also, I had said to read the bible. Maybe you could buy a good commentary to go along with it since some passages are a bit difficult to really understand. But God also uses the bible to speak to you personally so you should read it a lot.

Also, don’t be too confused when we posters sometimes don’t agree with each other to the last minute point. Like phansen posted the CCC to show that the law is on man’s heart. I said it’s been there only since the New Covenant. Well, fhansen is quoting the natural law, also it depends on how you understand “heart”. I studied and taught the most important covenants, about 6 or 7, and didn’t come across the law being in the heart until the New Covenant. But it’s a silly point to argue. And the CCC could have been a bit more simple! But did you read all those beautiful things fhansen said? And that’s what really counts! So don’t get too confused by these posts.

The only other thing I can say is this:

It’s not WHAT you know
It’s WHO you know! Jesus Christ. Keep your eyes on Him.

I’m sorry if I carried on. Having been involved with 3 different parishes till only last year, I see firsthand how our church would need to have more teaching.

I hope this has helped a little.

God bless you

I am pretty familiar with the Bible. One thing I say I should be learning is the CCC I definitely agree on that one.