God's natures

[billcu1]

It seems to me to be absent in catholicism but it is taught in hinduism and others that god has a fluxing nature. Now this is along with his changeless nature. All sin is is turning from the unchanging to the changing. This fluxing nature accounts for changes in weather, in relationships and in life in general. Nothing seems to stay the same. We are to be unmoved in times of trouble. Am I misunderstanding or is catholicism overlooking a fluxing nature that must also belong to god?

 

[ProdglArchitect]

It seems to me to be absent in catholicism but it is taught in hinduism and others that god has a fluxing nature. Now this is along with his changeless nature. All sin is is turning from the unchanging to the changing. This fluxing nature accounts for changes in weather, in relationships and in life in general. Nothing seems to stay the same. We are to be unmoved in times of trouble. Am I misunderstanding or is catholicism overlooking a fluxing nature that must also belong to god?

The weather patterns are not governed by God’s “mood,” they are determined by the physics of the reality He created. Our status in life is also not dependent on some sort of fluxing nature; it is the result of the choices you / those around you have made. We can hope for direct intervention from God (in the form of a miracle), but this has nothing to do with changes in God’s nature, and is rather the result of his consistent nature of Love.

 

[billcu1]

The weather patterns are not governed by God’s “mood,” they are determined by the physics of the reality He created. Our status in life is also not dependent on some sort of fluxing nature; it is the result of the choices you / those around you have made. We can hope for direct intervention from God (in the form of a miracle), but this has nothing to do with changes in God’s nature, and is rather the result of his consistent nature of Love.

I didn’t say anything had to do with god’s mood. And it rains or the just as well as the unjust. No matter the good or bad you do you can’t escape changability.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

I didn’t say anything had to do with god’s mood. And it rains or the just as well as the unjust. No matter the good or bad you do you can’t escape changability.

… Your posts are making little to no sense to me, I apologize if I’m misunderstanding. The fluctuations of nature (little ‘n’) have nothing to do with fluctuations in God’s Nature (big ‘N’). When I used the word mood, I was referencing changes in God’s Nature.

 

[Pugsly]

It seems to me to be absent in catholicism but it is taught in hinduism and others that god has a fluxing nature. Now this is along with his changeless nature. All sin is is turning from the unchanging to the changing. This fluxing nature accounts for changes in weather, in relationships and in life in general. Nothing seems to stay the same. We are to be unmoved in times of trouble. Am I misunderstanding or is catholicism overlooking a fluxing nature that must also belong to god?

The very nature of God is utter stability (peace) and power (virtue). When God is at “rest”, before creation, God has within His potential the eternal outpouring of Absolute Justice and Absolute Mercy. God then “played” with Wisdom (according to Proverbs) looking into the vast pool of possibilities (the sea of chaos mentioned in Genesis)…“the Spirit of God hovered over the dark waters…”. These waters of potential action are said to be “dark” because God is not really there. He is imagining what could be…before His creativity. During this act of Divine Prudence…God saw the potential for you and loved you before ever a thing was made. But, God cannot choose your imperfection…that would be an imperfect and unstable act…so God found a WAY (Jesus) to actualize your free choice within a vast creation.

Therefore, the Bible refers to God 1) at rest…then 2) at play (looking into the possibilities of creation with Wisdom…3) in the unique Act of Creation (which involves His pouring Himself out in both Eternal Justice and Mercy…4) and this brings us to where God will forever change…interacting with free creatures that He shows infinite mercy to.
“See I make all things new”

 

[JonathonofOhio]

God does not change (Malachi 3:6)…the world changes, people change, the universe changes, but God does not change. There is no ‘fluxing’.

 

[billcu1]

God does not change (Malachi 3:6)…the world changes, people change, the universe changes, but God does not change. There is no ‘fluxing’.

You agree that the universe changes and the world changes and then say there is no fluxing.

If there is not a fluxing nature that belongs to god as well as the unchanging nature of god then where does this fluxing nature come from?

 

[davidv]

You agree that the universe changes and the world changes and then say there is no fluxing.

Because the universe is not God. A changing universe says nothing about God relative to changing.

If there is not a fluxing nature that belongs to god as well as the unchanging nature of god then where does this fluxing nature come from?

I think you misunderstood the comment. I believe the poster indicated that there was no fluxing in God.

 

[billcu1]

Because the universe is not God. A changing universe says nothing about God relative to changing.

I think you misunderstood the comment. I believe the poster indicated that there was no fluxing in God.

There is a hindu scripture that says a lot to me on this subject. It’s something like this: Though I created the modes of materialism and passion I am the unchanging.

Everything comes from god. Sin is only turning from the unchanging to the changing (Theologica Germanica). The changing universe was created by god. So I guess I’m trying to say that I agree with you.

 

[JimG]

Catholic philosophy would use the terms ‘act’ and ‘potency,’ rather than ‘unchanging’ and ‘flux.’

God is all act and no potency. The universe, on the other hand, and all that is in it, goes from potency to act. It changes.

But God is Creator. The Universe is created. God is unchanging; the universe is changeable.

 

[billcu1]

Catholic philosophy would use the terms ‘act’ and ‘potency,’ rather than ‘unchanging’ and ‘flux.’

God is all act and no potency. The universe, on the other hand, and all that is in it, goes from potency to act. It changes.

But God is Creator. The Universe is created. God is unchanging; the universe is changeable.

How do potency and act interact together? I find Aristotle’s metaphysics to be alittle confusing term wise.

 

[JimG]

How do potency and act interact together? I find Aristotle’s metaphysics to be alittle confusing term wise.

Pretty much everybody does. From a theological standpoint, any potency in the divine nature would mean that He can change; it would mean that there is something in his nature that is at one point only a potential and at another point becomes actualized. For a number of reasons that doesn’t fit in with the nature of God, which is immutable.

For a much clearer explanation of the divine nature than I can give, I would recommend Frank Sheed’s Theology for Beginners and Theology and Sanity. I once took an entire college course based on “Theology for Beginners” as a text.

 

[billcu1]

The very nature of God is utter stability (peace) and power (virtue). When God is at “rest”, before creation, God has within His potential the eternal outpouring of Absolute Justice and Absolute Mercy. God then “played” with Wisdom (according to Proverbs) looking into the vast pool of possibilities (the sea of chaos mentioned in Genesis)…“the Spirit of God hovered over the dark waters…”. These waters of potential action are said to be “dark” because God is not really there. He is imagining what could be…before His creativity. During this act of Divine Prudence…God saw the potential for you and loved you before ever a thing was made. But, God cannot choose your imperfection…that would be an imperfect and unstable act…so God found a WAY (Jesus) to actualize your free choice within a vast creation.

Therefore, the Bible refers to God 1) at rest…then 2) at play (looking into the possibilities of creation with Wisdom…3) in the unique Act of Creation (which involves His pouring Himself out in both Eternal Justice and Mercy…4) and this brings us to where God will forever change…interacting with free creatures that He shows infinite mercy to.
“See I make all things new”

Ok what exactly is meant by God who is unlimited, limited himself to do all this? So God at rest was potency? And not pure act?

 

[spockrates]

Catholic philosophy would use the terms ‘act’ and ‘potency,’ rather than ‘unchanging’ and ‘flux.’

God is all act and no potency. The universe, on the other hand, and all that is in it, goes from potency to act. It changes.

But God is Creator. The Universe is created. God is unchanging; the universe is changeable.

Hi, JimG. Your statement is fascinating to me.

 

[spockrates]

Pretty much everybody does. From a theological standpoint, any potency in the divine nature would mean that He can change; it would mean that there is something in his nature that is at one point only a potential and at another point becomes actualized. For a number of reasons that doesn’t fit in with the nature of God, which is immutable.

For a much clearer explanation of the divine nature than I can give, I would recommend Frank Sheed’s Theology for Beginners and Theology and Sanity. I once took an entire college course based on “Theology for Beginners” as a text.

Hope you don’t mind my engaging in the conversation. By saying God is all act and no potency, do you mean that God is all actual and no potential? That is, are you saying there is nothing God might potentially do, for everything possible for him, he does?