God's Omnipotence.

[Fox]

The very existence of omnipotence seems to preclude the possibility of freedom. To see it from a slightly different angle, what if I (not being omnipotent) know what you (also not omnipotent) is going to do in the next few minutes? How can you be free to do it if the result has already been written?

 

[Samuel63]

We have a word for this of course. It is called a mystery.

 

[LoyalViews]

We have a word for this of course. It is called a mystery.

Well said

 

[Aelred_Minor]

Do you mean omnipotence or omniscience?

If omnipotence, then an omnipotent being has the power to create free creatures.

If omniscience, remember that God sees all times as present all at once. Each moment is “now”. If someone witnesses you typing at your computer, that does not mean your decision to type at your computer was any less free.

 

[Anthony_V]

The very existence of omnipotence seems to preclude the possibility of freedom. To see it from a slightly different angle, what if I (not being omnipotent) know what you (also not omnipotent) is going to do in the next few minutes? How can you be free to do it if the result has already been written?

Knowledge of an Action: To know, but not necessarily will.
Will of an Action: To know, and partake by necessity.
To Act: The being of an action, however not by necessity of knowledge or will.

God knows action. He does not necessarily will it. Therefore, the will of an action is independent of knowledge that the action will happen.

 

[James224]

The very existence of omnipotence seems to preclude the possibility of freedom. To see it from a slightly different angle, what if I (not being omnipotent) know what you (also not omnipotent) is going to do in the next few minutes? How can you be free to do it if the result has already been written?

God knows be we don’t know. This is part of Predestination. God allows us free will and it’s in God’s permissive will to allow it. If we make an immoral choice, God doesn’t cause it but, rather, permits it.

 

[Krakatoa]

I have heard it expressed this way: You are on the corner of the roof of a tall building and you are looking down to the street below to see two vehicles speeding to the same corner, each one not knowing the other is there, and you know the vehicles are going to collide, but you do not will it. It’s like that with God.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

I have heard it expressed this way: You are on the corner of the roof of a tall building and you are looking down to the street below to see two vehicles speeding to the same corner, each one not knowing the other is there, and you know the vehicles are going to collide, but you do not will it. It’s like that with God.

I like that. You could carry it even further, in saying that you were say the fire chief commissioner and the two vehicles were fire trucks from two different companies, both of whom had heard you lecture time and time again about how important it was to maintain communication with each other and to keep the engines running smoothly . … and that one of the trucks had bad brakes which should have been fixed but weren’t because everybody who was supposed to check either assumed somebody else had done it, or that it wouldn’t matter if it was done later because they had something more important to do. . .and that in the OTHER truck the radio was not working properly and again, everybody who was supposed to check bailed. . .and that in both trucks, armed with all this knowledge, each man is deliberately racing along knowing that things which should have been done were not, but more intent on having their own way.

So there you are, looking down, trying frantically to communicate and hearing the static indicating one’s radio is broken, and seeing that even though you managed to ‘contact’ the other one and they’ve frantically started to brake, their brakes are failing and they’re going to collide anyway.

You did everything you possibly could to ensure that these trucks would travel safely, but in each one, the individual decisions of the men, decisions that were personally ‘against’ what you taught and told them to do, resulted in the crash which you can SEE is going to happen though you yourself had nothing to do with the happening yourself.

 

[greylorn]

The very existence of omnipotence seems to preclude the possibility of freedom. To see it from a slightly different angle, what if I (not being omnipotent) know what you (also not omnipotent) is going to do in the next few minutes? How can you be free to do it if the result has already been written?

Your argument is incorrectly stated. The attribute “omniscience” applies, but “omnipotence” does not.

With correction of the terminology (which is important to cogent arguments) the answer is that there can be no possibility of free will, no matter how many arcane philosophical arguments are wrapped around the issue.

Beliefs in the Creator can be greatly simplified, and brought into excellent correspondence with scientific theory and empirical evidence, by adopting the rational assumption that God is neither omniscient nor omnipotent.

 

[lolraichu]

There is no such thing as the future. It is simply a bunch of hypothetical situations that exist in the mind.

 

[Curious_Hobbit]

We are free because God is omnipotent. God created a world where rain drops would fall to the ground according to certain physical laws and where freely choosing human beings fulfill his plan.

Think of the Robot lady from the Jetsons. If she is programmed to clean the kitchen then she must do it, she is not free. She couldn’t stop at any time unless a malfunction occurred. However humans on the other hand are free and when they clean kitchens. In both situations the same end is achieved: a cleaned kitchen. However this end was achieved by 2 different means. One was a programmed computer just carrying out what it was programmed to do, much like an application on a computer. The other was a freely choosing person who didn’t have to clean the kitchen, and every instant that the person was cleaning they could have chose to quit.

God created a world with a plan that would be fulfilled by freely choosing human beings. We are not omnipotent and we could never conceive of a chess game being played by free independent individuals whose future they themselves determine. Since God is omnipotent he has the power to create a world where non-free things (rocks, rain, etc.) and free humans would complete his plan. IMO when I choose to do something (like eating cereal this morning) I don’t see any contradiction with my freedom when I’m told that God planned that to happen, for I know that I still freely willed it to happen.

 

[belorg]

I like that. You could carry it even further, in saying that you were say the fire chief commissioner and the two vehicles were fire trucks from two different companies, both of whom had heard you lecture time and time again about how important it was to maintain communication with each other and to keep the engines running smoothly . … and that one of the trucks had bad brakes which should have been fixed but weren’t because everybody who was supposed to check either assumed somebody else had done it, or that it wouldn’t matter if it was done later because they had something more important to do. . .and that in the OTHER truck the radio was not working properly and again, everybody who was supposed to check bailed. . .and that in both trucks, armed with all this knowledge, each man is deliberately racing along knowing that things which should have been done were not, but more intent on having their own way.

So there you are, looking down, trying frantically to communicate and hearing the static indicating one’s radio is broken, and seeing that even though you managed to ‘contact’ the other one and they’ve frantically started to brake, their brakes are failing and they’re going to collide anyway.

You did everything you possibly could to ensure that these trucks would travel safely, but in each one, the individual decisions of the men, decisions that were personally ‘against’ what you taught and told them to do, resulted in the crash which you can SEE is going to happen though you yourself had nothing to do with the happening yourself.

You forget to mention that you are an omnipotent creator of everything, including the bad brakes and the communications system, as well as the minds and everything going on in the minds of the persons in charge of maintaining and repairing the trucks and of the minds of the people responsible for communication and that at the end of the day you are the one claiming to be just in punishing those people for acting exactly the way you expêvted them to act when you created them.

You see, omniscience does not entail lack of libertarian freedom and neither does omnipotence as such, but being the sole creator of the whole bunch means that you and nobody else is responsible for what goes wrong. And if you also created each person’s mind and its content, then no, there is no room left for libertarian free will.

 

[warpspeedpetey]

The very existence of omnipotence seems to preclude the possibility of freedom. To see it from a slightly different angle, what if I (not being omnipotent) know what you (also not omnipotent) is going to do in the next few minutes? How can you be free to do it if the result has already been written?

G-d is Actus Purus the very act of existing. Therefore G-d is omnipresent or equally present at every point that can be said to exist simultaneously. Therefore the moments in which you act is to G-d the same moment in which you were created and you are judged. You are both free and G-d knows what you are going to do because to him you have already done it.