God's Perfect Justice

[laylow]

For the people who “had it easy” in this life, do they have to suffer in the next to make up for the sufferings that others had to endure? How can God’s justice be perfect if everyone is not subjected to the same conditions? Do the sufferers get “more” in the afterlife?

 

[Gorgias]

For the people who “had it easy” in this life, do they have to suffer in the next to make up for the sufferings that others had to endure?

No. There’s nothing in Christian theology that posits an equal amount of ‘suffering’ that each must endure, whether on earth or after death.

How can God’s justice be perfect if everyone is not subjected to the same conditions?

Why do you suggest that it’s imperfect? After all, if it perfectly reacts to the life situations that the person encountered in life, isn’t it ‘perfect justice’?

Do the sufferers get “more” in the afterlife?

Not by virtue of having suffered more on earth.

 

[ANV]

Look at how earth is, if there is a god he is anything but a just god.

 

[laylow]

No. There’s nothing in Christian theology that posits an equal amount of ‘suffering’ that each must endure, whether on earth or after death.

Why do you suggest that it’s imperfect? After all, if it perfectly reacts to the life situations that the person encountered in life, isn’t it ‘perfect justice’?

Not by virtue of having suffered more on earth.

If someone receives more on Earth and the same in the afterlife and someone with less on earth and same in the afterlife, that doesn’t seem perfect to me.

 

[GEddie]

If someone receives more on Earth and the same in the afterlife and someone with less on earth and same in the afterlife, that doesn’t seem perfect to me.

I think the issue is that by comparison to life everlasting, Earthly life will seem as somewhat of a dream. What one had, enjoyed, overcame or failed to overcome will then not matter so much.

I know that that isn’t great consolation to those now undergoing hardship. Some things are just not consolable within the framework of human life.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Tantum_ergo]

If someone receives more on Earth and the same in the afterlife and someone with less on earth and same in the afterlife, that doesn’t seem perfect to me.

Why not?

What do you use to judge as ‘more’ or ‘less’? Material good? Happy marriage? Good health? Congenial work?

What about the person’s given temperament? Some people are hypersensitive, others are stoic.

What about the person’s own cooperation? Suppose you have somebody who works his butt off to provide a comfortable life for himself and his family, and somebody else whines and complains about bad breaks but just bums around instead of working, and thus ‘doesn’t have as much’ as the first person?

God knows everything and God is perfectly just.

Also I venture to say that anybody who has accepted God’s salvation and is enjoying eternal bliss would not even think about comparing whether he or she ‘was unfairly treated’ or ‘didn’t get as much as other people in heaven’.

 

[MaryT777]

Why not?

What do you use to judge as ‘more’ or ‘less’? Material good? Happy marriage? Good health? Congenial work?

What about the person’s given temperament? Some people are hypersensitive, others are stoic.

What about the person’s own cooperation? Suppose you have somebody who works his butt off to provide a comfortable life for himself and his family, and somebody else whines and complains about bad breaks but just bums around instead of working, and thus ‘doesn’t have as much’ as the first person?

God knows everything and God is perfectly just.

Also I venture to say that anybody who has accepted God’s salvation and is enjoying eternal bliss would not even think about comparing whether he or she ‘was unfairly treated’ or ‘didn’t get as much as other people in heaven’.

Well said.

 

[Brassring]

For the people who “had it easy” in this life, do they have to suffer in the next to make up for the sufferings that others had to endure? How can God’s justice be perfect if everyone is not subjected to the same conditions? Do the sufferers get “more” in the afterlife?

I don’t believe that is true.

However I have heard it said that for those who remain unrepentant and separate from God, this world is as close to Heaven as they will ever get.

For those who live piously, and attempt to remain in God’s grace, this world is as close to hell as they will ever get.

So…In a way, I guess it evens out in the end.

 

[Gorgias]

If someone receives more on Earth and the same in the afterlife and someone with less on earth and same in the afterlife, that doesn’t seem perfect to me.

Jesus faced exactly the same objection, and had a response for it:

“The kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out at dawn to hire laborers for his vineyard. After agreeing with them for the usual daily wage, he sent them into his vineyard. Going out about nine o’clock… [and] again around noon… and around three o’clock… and about five o’clock… he found others standing around, and said to them, ‘Why do you stand here idle all day?’ They answered, ‘Because no one has hired us.’ He said to them, ‘You too go into my vineyard.’

When it was evening the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Summon the laborers and give them their pay, beginning with the last and ending with the first.’

When those who had started about five o’clock came, each received the usual daily wage. So when the first came, they thought that they would receive more, but each of them also got the usual wage. And on receiving it they grumbled against the landowner, saying, ‘These last ones worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us, who bore the day’s burden and the heat.’

He said to one of them in reply, ‘My friend, I am not cheating you. Did you not agree with me for the usual daily wage? … What if I wish to give this last one the same as you? [Or] am I not free to do as I wish with my own money? Are you envious because I am generous?’"

It kinda strains credulity to imagine the complaint: “wait… I put up with 60 years of trial and tribulation while on earth… and all I get is eternal life in heaven? That’s all?!?”

 

[laylow]

Why not?

What do you use to judge as ‘more’ or ‘less’? Material good? Happy marriage? Good health? Congenial work?

What about the person’s given temperament? Some people are hypersensitive, others are stoic.

What about the person’s own cooperation? Suppose you have somebody who works his butt off to provide a comfortable life for himself and his family, and somebody else whines and complains about bad breaks but just bums around instead of working, and thus ‘doesn’t have as much’ as the first person?

God knows everything and God is perfectly just.

Also I venture to say that anybody who has accepted God’s salvation and is enjoying eternal bliss would not even think about comparing whether he or she ‘was unfairly treated’ or ‘didn’t get as much as other people in heaven’.

I don’t think most people, especially living the good life in America can fathom some of the lives people are forced to live. People tend to think of all the rapists and murders and such as these horrible people, but fail to realize what let them there. Many have horrible mental illness and family situations. Many don’t make it through until the end without bad sins. They may not “repent” because they don’t know or are killed by themselves or others. But does that make them bad people? Most on earth judge them, but obviously their judgement doesn’t matter.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I don’t think most people, especially living the good life in America can fathom some of the lives people are forced to live. People tend to think of all the rapists and murders and such as these horrible people, but fail to realize what let them there. Many have horrible mental illness and family situations. Many don’t make it through until the end without bad sins. They may not “repent” because they don’t know or are killed by themselves or others. But does that make them bad people? Most on earth judge them, but obviously their judgement doesn’t matter.

Don’t you think God who knows and sees all would take into account the fact that some rapists and murderers etc. had mental illnesses or horrible family situations and therefore may have had a diminished capacity to understand what they were doing, or were somehow driven to it? Do you not think it possible that He might give them a chance to repent if they were somehow suddenly killed?

You are correct that the judgment of us on earth does not matter when it comes to whether someone goes to heaven or hell. We’re not in possession of all the facts and God doesn’t operate according to how we think.

 

[laylow]

Don’t you think God who knows and sees all would take into account the fact that some rapists and murderers etc. had mental illnesses or horrible family situations and therefore may have had a diminished capacity to understand what they were doing, or were somehow driven to it? Do you not think it possible that He might give them a chance to repent if they were somehow suddenly killed?

You are correct that the judgment of us on earth does not matter when it comes to whether someone goes to heaven or hell. We’re not in possession of all the facts and God doesn’t operate according to how we think.

I tend to agree, but society does not seem to be sympathetic to these types of people. Usually you just see judgement being passed which makes these people and their families suffer even more.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I tend to agree, but society does not seem to be sympathetic to these types of people. Usually you just see judgement being passed which makes these people and their families suffer even more.

I’m not sure what all this has to do with God’s Justice. God does not base his decision on what society thinks.

I’m also sure that God is equally able to see why people are judgmental and while it may be because they are prideful and insensitive, it may also be because many of them suffered through bad family situations, have mental illnesses, or other sufferings that biased them. Many people I see condemning murderers or abusers say things like “I don’t care if he had a bad childhood. My brother and I had a bad childhood, our father was a nasty drunk who beat us every night for 10 years, yet we didn’t grow up to murder or rape people, so a bad childhood is no excuse.”

 

[Slartibartfast]

Jesus faced exactly the same objection, and had a response for it:

It kinda strains credulity to imagine the complaint: “wait… I put up with 60 years of trial and tribulation while on earth… and all I get is eternal life in heaven? That’s all?!?”

Thank you! That is probably the best explanation of that parable I have ever heard. Now it makes sense to me

 

[petra22]

For the people who “had it easy” in this life, do they have to suffer in the next to make up for the sufferings that others had to endure? How can God’s justice be perfect if everyone is not subjected to the same conditions? Do the sufferers get “more” in the afterlife?

…

Doesn’t God get to judge “easy”? Remember everyone’s cross is not the same size or weight because the people carrying the thing are not the same… What may seem easy to us may be crushing to them. So, don’t judge??? Let God handle it.

**If God is just for all my dh has had to suffer in this life he will be lifted straight up to heaven (my words!) Then I always joke with him that when he gets there he should reach down and pull me up, too! Not that I deserve it. I’ve had it so much easier…

 

[laylow]

…

Doesn’t God get to judge “easy”? Remember everyone’s cross is not the same size or weight because the people carrying the thing are not the same… What may seem easy to us may be crushing to them. So, don’t judge??? Let God handle it.

**If God is just for all my dh has had to suffer in this life he will be lifted straight up to heaven (my words!) Then I always joke with him that when he gets there he should reach down and pull me up, too! Not that I deserve it. I’ve had it so much easier…

Well I try not to judge, it’s just that I’m set up to fail. Me making it through this life will be near impossible.

 

[joeybaggz]

Look at how earth is, if there is a god he is anything but a just god.

And nobody responded to this post. Yes ANV, I do look at how the earth is, and I see God’s perfect justice at work everywhere. After all, somewhere there is a Mr. Pelosi. :tsktsk: Just one instance.

Shalom

 

[oldgraymare2]

And nobody responded to this post. Yes ANV, I do look at how the earth is, and I see God’s perfect justice at work everywhere. After all, somewhere there is a Mr. Pelosi. :tsktsk: Just one instance.

Shalom

If anyone would be interested in reading more about God’s Mercy and Justice, I would recommend reading St. Faustina’s Diary, Divine Mercy in My Soul.

 

[laylow]

Jesus faced exactly the same objection, and had a response for it:

It kinda strains credulity to imagine the complaint: “wait… I put up with 60 years of trial and tribulation while on earth… and all I get is eternal life in heaven? That’s all?!?”

That still doesn’t constitute perfect justice. For it to be perfect, all people would need to suffer the same to get the same reward. Otherwise, the person suffering more, needs to get more. Otherwise, it simply is not perfect.

 

[laylow]

The Bible or the church do not adequately answer the question of justice or fairness.