God's plan, destiny and free will

[tonyrey]

Does one have heavenly freewill to change their mind in heaven?

When you are in the Presence of Perfect Love you would have to be insane to change your mind…

 

[tonyrey]

Did God hardening the hearts of Pharoah and all the Kings Joshua killed impose on their free will to demonstrate HIS wrath?

Only Fundamentalists interpret the whole of the Old Testament literally.

Did God impose on the Romans and Pontius Pilate to crucify Christ for our sins as part of His plan?

No! Others could have executed Him for exposing their injustice and exploitation of the poor.

Did God impose on the freewill of Doubting Thomas and Saul-Paul in Damascus through “seeing” rather than faith?

No! They could have subsequently changed their minds. St Paul considered the possibility that Christians are mistaken…

Will we have free will in heaven to decide if we want to worship or not or are we heavenly robots?

When you are in the Presence of Perfect Love you would have to be insane to change your mind…

I would not have complete “bliss” knowing a loved non-Christian is burning in Hell for the non-violent crime of non-belief.

If you are constantly rejected by a loved one you accept the fact unless you are out of your mind.

No one is condemned for sincerity - or for anything else. Hell is a state of self-imposed independence (and isolation) in which you worship yourself, have your own kingdom, live for yourself, answer to no one - and to hell with everyone else!

 

[tonyrey]

As an omniscient being, he knows THE outcome in advance…not a set of possibilities dependent on personal decisions. The omniscience part was driven into our heads many years ago in Catechism. He knows everything…it was a nice control element for the adults to have that eye in the sky.

If he only knows a set of possibilities, then he is not omniscient…

It is impossible to know what does not exist. Omniscience is knowledge of all that exists and awareness of the possibilities.

It’s a nice lack of control element for anyone to have absolute privacy and to be able to get away with rape, murder or any other crime one fancies…

 

[belorg]

It is impossible to know what does not exist. Omniscience is knowledge of all that exists and awareness of the possibilities.

It’s a nice lack of control element for anyone to have absolute privacy and to be able to get away with rape, murder or any other crime one fancies…

So, God does not know what I will do tomorrow?

 

[PendingTheist]

When you are in the Presence of Perfect Love you would have to be insane to change your mind…

But how can you be truly happy knowing loved ones are suffering an infinite torture due to the non-violent and finite “crime” of unbelief?

 

[tonyrey]

It is impossible to know

I don’t believe you are a non-existent person. But I may be mistaken.

BTW Do you enjoy having absolute privacy or would you prefer all your mental activity to be known to an omniscient Being?

 

[tonyrey]

But how can you be truly happy knowing loved ones are suffering an infinite torture due to the non-violent and finite “crime” of unbelief?

It is absurd to believe a loving Father punishes His children for unbelief unless it is wilful and a pretext for moral corruption and selfishness. Sincerity is not a vice but a virtue.

 

[belorg]

I don’t believe you are a non-existent person. But I may be mistaken.

BTW Do you enjoy having absolute privacy or would you prefer all your mental activity to be known to an omniscient Being?

What I will do tomorrow is non-existent now, so does God know that or not?

And yes, I enjoy having absolute privacy.

 

[tonyrey]

What I will do tomorrow is non-existent now, so does God know that or not?

I don’t claim to **know **what God knows. I believe God knows everything that is knowable. In any case omniscience has no bearing on free will because knowledge doesn’t entail causality or compulsion. Induction is not based on physical necessity but probability. There is no guarantee that the laws of nature will continue to exist indefinitely. In fact it seems most unlikely…

And yes, I enjoy having absolute privacy.

That is a good reason for choosing to be an atheist!

 

[belorg]

I don’t claim to **know **what God knows. I believe God knows everything that is knowable. In any case omniscience has no bearing on free will because knowledge doesn’t entail causality or compulsion. Induction is not based on physical necessity but probability. There is no guarantee that the laws of nature will continue to exist indefinitely. In fact it seems most unlikely…

I have no idea why you introduce induction here.
But I think my question is simple: does God know the future or doesn’t He?

That is a good reason for choosing to be an atheist!

I didn’t choose to be an atheist, Tony.

 

[tonyrey]

I have no idea why you introduce induction here.
But I think my question is simple: does God know the future or doesn’t He?

I don’t claim to know what is knowable by God because I’m not omniscient.
I believe God knows everything that is knowable, e.g. we shall all get what we deserve and love will triumph over evil.

I didn’t choose to be an atheist, Tony.

You have no control over your thoughts and conclusions, belorg?

 

[belorg]

I don’t claim to know what is knowable by God because I’m not omniscient.
I believe God knows everything that is knowable, e.g. we shall all get what we deserve and love will triumph over evil.

Are you sure that’s knowable? How would you know thta?

You have no control over your thoughts and conclusions, belorg?

I can’t make right waht is false, Tony.

 

[tonyrey]

I don’t claim to know what is knowable by God because I’m not omniscient.
I believe God knows everything that is knowable, e.g. we shall all get what we deserve and love will triumph over evil.

There is plenty of evidence that evil is self-destructive and love is self-enhancing. The Greek concept of Nemesis and the Indian doctrine of Karma are based on psychological facts.

You have no control over your thoughts and conclusions, belorg?

I can’t make right waht is false, Tony. .

You are right but it doesn’t follow that you have no control over your thoughts and conclusions.