God's Plan for Our Lives

[Bookcat]

Bleak but true.

That’s the cross - bleak.

Again no.

When God refuses to give the rest of the whole, game over.

Suffering is all there is in life.

I am sorry for your struggles and suffering …

But do not let the pain of your sufferings keep you from seeing other things.

I know that if I had say a toothache - it would yes be very difficult to enjoy say a nice dinner or other good event - but it would not be reality for me to say “oh there is only the toothache”.

I suggest you seek out some good counsel - a good Priest etc. Even if you may have before -keep working on these dark thoughts etc …even in suffering it is important to see more than that suffering…

 

[Bookcat]

Actually St. John of the Cross disagrees with you. The closer you are to God the more suffering, during the Dark Night of the Senses and then the Dark Night of the Soul. The Dark Night of the Senses begins with suffering = 0 and consolations.

Actually that would not be a whole again…even in the writings of that particular Saint and School of Spiritual Theology.

 

[BobCatholic]

Actually that would not be a whole again…even in the writings of that particular Saint and School of Spiritual Theology.

If I’m apparently in the Dark Night of the Senses, I should have had a series of consolations where I feel so close to God. I never had those.

So clearly I’m NOT in the Dark Night of the Senses. If I were, I’d be glad since I know that the Great Surgeon is working on me.

But nope. Not there.

So when God refuses to give the other part (i.e. happiness, joy) how am I supposed to get either?

So in such a case, game over. Thy will be done.

Back to carrying the cross for me!

 

[Bookcat]

If I’m apparently in the Dark Night of the Senses, I should have had a series of consolations where I feel so close to God. I never had those.

So clearly I’m NOT in the Dark Night of the Senses. If I were, I’d be glad since I know that the Great Surgeon is working on me.

But nope. Not there.

I did not say that your in the night of the senses…

You had said:

“Actually St. John of the Cross disagrees with you. The closer you are to God the more suffering, during the Dark Night of the Senses and then the Dark Night of the Soul. The Dark Night of the Senses begins with suffering = 0 and consolations.”

To which I replied:

Actually that would not be a whole again…even in the writings of that particular Saint and School of Spiritual Theology.

 

[LethalMouse]

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=13923196&postcount=40

Your dark night of the senses may be this perception… in fact this here is the very problem with all of humanity on some level they are all the renter

 

[BobCatholic]

I did not say that your in the night of the senses…

You had said:

“Actually St. John of the Cross disagrees with you. The closer you are to God the more suffering, during the Dark Night of the Senses and then the Dark Night of the Soul. The Dark Night of the Senses begins with suffering = 0 and consolations.”

To which I replied:

Actually that would not be a whole again…even in the writings of that particular Saint and School of Spiritual Theology.

So what are you trying to say?

That one getting close to God gets to have warm fuzzies?

This is how people get closer to God (according to those Spiritual Masters)

The warm fuzzies take place in the beginning.

Then comes the Dark Night of the Senses. ZERO warm fuzzies.

After that comes the Dark Night of the Soul. ZERO warm fuzzies.

Not sure who made it here in this earthly life through the Dark Night of the Soul. I think none did.

But after this life and we have union with God → TONS of warm fuzzies!

But not here on this earthly life.

 

[Bookcat]

So what are you trying to say?

I am saying what I said. Your looking at Christian life…at the Spiritual life …not as it is understood by the Church or even by St. John of the Cross…

Suffering sure is part of life and part of the spiritual life -but it is not the whole.

If your not seeing that - please work with a Spiritual director etc as well as in continuing in Formation in the Faith and the Spiritual life etc.

 

[BobCatholic]

I am saying what I said. Your looking at Christian life…at the Spiritual life …not as it is understood by the Church or even by St. John of the Cross…

Suffering sure is part of life and part of the spiritual life -but it is not the whole.

OK, so if suffering is not the whole, God must provide the rest (i.e. pleasant things).

But when “the rest” is not provided by God, then the only thing is suffering.

God loves those who are blessed with “the rest” more than those who don’t get “the rest”.

 

[Bookcat]

OK, so if suffering is not the whole, God must provide the rest (i.e. pleasant things).

But when “the rest” is not provided by God, then the only thing is suffering.

God loves those who are blessed with “the rest” more than those who don’t get “the rest”.

Pleasant things would be only a wee example…

Everyone receives much more than suffering. Every Christian who is alive in Christ -gets way more than suffering. Even in the midst of suffering.

Each one.

Starting with the reality of being “in Christ” being a “temple of the Holy Spirit” being “a new creation” being “a son in the Son” …knowing Jesus Christ the Lord…

…the life of Grace alone far outstrips any natural gift in life…

*true life *in Christ beings thus here.

And is fulfilled in heaven and in the Resurrection and the new heavens and new earth.

 

[BobCatholic]

Pleasant things would be only a wee example…

Everyone receives much more than suffering. Every Christian who is alive in Christ -gets way more than suffering. Even in the midst of suffering.

Each one.

Starting with the reality of being “in Christ” being a “temple of the Holy Spirit” being “a new creation” being “a son in the Son” …knowing Jesus Christ the Lord…

*true life *in Christ beings thus here.

And is fulfilled in heaven and in the Resurrection and the new heavens and new earth.

And if none of those “other things” you mentioned, do nothing to relieve the suffering, then what?

“My grace is sufficient for you” is not enough to relieve the suffering. How is it sufficient when I need the suffering to be relieved?

Sometimes people don’t want to get beaten to a pulp every day of their life. But that’s required. (Hebrews 12:6)

Good Friday is supposed to lead to Easter Sunday.

Supposed.

What if one doesn’t make it?

I worry about the next fall that I can’t get up.

Easter Sunday is not in this life, and never is for me.

…the life of Grace alone far outstrips any natural gift in life…

How come God is willing to give a trillion dollar (or priceless gift) but refuses to give a dime?

The dime = relieve suffering.

 

[davidv]

And if none of those “other things” you mentioned, do nothing to relieve the suffering, then what?

Do as St. Paul did.
2 Cor 12:

Therefore, to keep[a] me from being too elated, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me, to keep me from being too elated.** 8 Three times I appealed to the Lord about this, that it would leave me, 9 but he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for power[c] is made perfect in weakness.” So, I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me. 10 Therefore I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities for the sake of Christ; for whenever I am weak, then I am strong.**

“My grace is sufficient for you” is not enough to relieve the suffering. How is it sufficient when I need the suffering to be relieved?

Sometimes people don’t want to get beaten to a pulp every day of their life. But that’s required. (Hebrews 12:6)

Good Friday is supposed to lead to Easter Sunday.

Supposed.

What if one doesn’t make it?

I worry about the next fall that I can’t get up.

Easter Sunday is not in this life, and never is for me.

How come God is willing to give a trillion dollar (or priceless gift) but refuses to give a dime?

The dime = relieve suffering.

 

[tomarin]

Perhaps even seemingly hopeless cases are given a chance to redeem themselves after death as God’s mercy is infinite.

 

[Bookcat]

And if none of those “other things” you mentioned, do nothing to relieve the suffering, then what?

(Note well God wills too that one seek a doctor and a doctor and a priest…and more than once…wanted to note that first…)

Now back you the question - then to the extent that one cannot avoid the suffering - well one suffers and does so untied to Christ.

Suffering* does not remove* the realities I have spoken of.

They can persist with the person…

(And any suffering in this life - is nothing compared to the glory that awaits one in heaven and in the resurrection! One cannot compare some a number years on earth with that…just cannot!)