God's will

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Julie_de_Sales

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How do we know if in a specific situation the way things evolved (for the worse) was God’s will or the effect of our own bad actions? Let’s say that I really wanted a job and applied but didn’t got it, how do I know that it was the will of God and not my fault, because, maybe, I wasn’t good at the interview, or I’m not sufficiently skilled in that domain, etc. Or, for example, if I marry a guy and then I realise it’s not a good husband for me, can I say that God permitted this to happend or, on the contrary, it’s my fault for not having searched long enough, or didn’t discerned properly before marriage?

I hope it’s not too vague what I said…the main point is that when something doesn’t work out, we can find consolation in the will of God, saying that He wanted/permitted this or that to happen for our sanctification maybe. But if it was my mistake, I can’t think this way anymore, can I?
 
  1. GOD CONTROLS ALL EVENTS, WHETHER GOOD OR BAD
    Nothing happens in the universe without God willing and allowing it. This statement must be taken absolutely of everything with the exception of sin. ‘Nothing occurs by chance in the whole course of our lives’ is the unanimous teaching of the Fathers and Doctors of the Church, ‘and God intervenes everywhere.’
    I am the Lord, He tells us Himself by the mouth of the prophet Isaias, and there is none else. I form light and create darkness; I make peace and create evil. I, the Lord, do all these things. It is I who bring both death and life, I who inflict wounds and heal them, He said to Moses. The Lord killeth and maketh alive, it is written in the Canticle of Anna, the mother of Samuel, He bringeth down to the tomb and He bringeth back again; the Lord maketh poor and maketh rich, he humbleth and he exalteth. Shall there be evil (disaster, affliction) in a city which the Lord hath not done? asks the prophet Amos: Good things and evil, life and death, poverty and riches are from God Solomon proclaims. And so on in numerous other passages of Scripture.
    Perhaps you will say that while this is true of certain necessary effects, like sickness, death, cold and heat, and other accidents due to natural causes which have no liberty of action, the same cannot be said in the case of things that result from the free will of man. For if, you will object, someone slanders me, robs me, strikes me, persecutes me, how can I attribute his conduct to the will of God who far from wishing me to be treated in such a manner, expressly forbids it? So the blame, you will conclude, can only be laid on the will of man, on his ignorance or malice. This is the defense behind which we try to shelter from God and excuse our lack of courage and submission.
    It is quite useless for us to try and take advantage of this way of reasoning as an excuse for not surrendering to Providence. God Himself has refuted it and we must believe on His word that in events of this kind as in all others, nothing occurs except by His order and permission. Let us see what the Scriptures say. He wishes to punish the murder and adultery committed by David and He expresses Himself as follows by the mouth of the prophet Nathan: Why therefore hast thou despised the word of the Lord, to do evil in my sight? Thou hast killed Urias the Hittite with the sword, and hast taken his wife to be thy wife, and hast slain him with the sword of the children of Ammon. Therefore the sword shall never depart from thy house, because thou hast despised me, and host taken the wife of Urias the Hittite to be thy wife. Thus saith the Lord: Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thy own house, and I will take thy wives before thy eyes and give
    them to thy neighbor and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun. For thou didst it secretly, but I will do this thing in the sight of all all Israel, and in the sight of the sun.
    Later when the Jews by their iniquities had grievously offended Him and provoked His wrath, He says: The Assyrian is the rod and the staff of My anger, and My indignation is in his hands. I will send him to the deceitful nation, and I will give him charge against the people of my wrath, to take away the spoils, and to lay hold on the prey, and to tread them down like the mire of thestreets.
    Could God more openly declare Himself to be responsible for the evils that Absalom caused his father and the King of Assyria the Jews? It would be easy to find other instances but these are enough. Let us conclude then with St. Augustine: “All that happens to us in this world against our will (whether due to men or to other causes) happens to us only by the will of God, by the disposal of Providence, by His orders and under His guidance; and if from the frailty of our understanding we cannot grasp the reason for some event, let us attribute it to divine Providence, show Him respect by accepting it from His hand, believe firmly that He does not send it us without cause.”
    Replying to the murmurs and complaints of the Jews who attributed their captivity and sufferings to misfortune and causes other than the will of God, the prophet Jeremias says to them: Who is he that hath commanded a thing to be done, when the Lord commandeth it not? Do not both evil and good proceed out of the mouth of the Highest? Why doth a living man murmur, a man suffering for his sins? Let us search our ways, and seek, and return to the Lord. Let us lift up our hearts with our hands to the Lord in the heavens, saying, We have done wickedly and provoked thee to wrath; therefore thou art inexorable.
    Are not these words clear enough? We should take them to heart for our own good. Let us be careful to attribute everything to the will of God and believe that all is guided by His paternal hand.
Trustful Surrender to Divine Providence
by Fr. Jean Baptiste Saint-Jure & St. Claude de la Colombiere

Peace
 
Julie_de_Sales said:
How do we know if in a specific situation the way things evolved (for the worse) was God’s will or the effect of our own bad actions? Let’s say that I really wanted a job and applied but didn’t got it, how do I know that it was the will of God and not my fault, because, maybe, I wasn’t good at the interview, or I’m not sufficiently skilled in that domain, etc. Or, for example, if I marry a guy and then I realise it’s not a good husband for me, can I say that God permitted this to happend or, on the contrary, it’s my fault for not having searched long enough, or didn’t discerned properly before marriage?

I hope it’s not too vague what I said…the main point is that when something doesn’t work out, we can find consolation in the will of God, saying that He wanted/permitted this or that to happen for our sanctification maybe. But if it was my mistake, I can’t think this way anymore, can I?
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It is impossible to know for certain to what extent God intervenes except when a person is cured miraculously. Nor can we be sure how far we are responsible for our thoughts, decisions, actions or failures to act but we have to believe we can usually control ourselves and not try to pass the buck. On the other hand we shouldn’t go to the other extreme and blame ourselves for all our failures. The simplest solution is not to be too introspective, analytic or judgmental - of ourselves and others. It boils down to having a **positive **approach to life, summed up in the virtues of faith, hope and love:
35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
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  • Romans 8:35-39
That is all we need to know… 🙂
 
Julie_de_Sales said:
How do we know if in a specific situation the way things evolved (for the worse) was God’s will or the effect of our own bad actions? Let’s say that I really wanted a job and applied but didn’t got it, how do I know that it was the will of God and not my fault, because, maybe, I wasn’t good at the interview, or I’m not sufficiently skilled in that domain, etc. Or, for example, if I marry a guy and then I realise it’s not a good husband for me, can I say that God permitted this to happend or, on the contrary, it’s my fault for not having searched long enough, or didn’t discerned properly before marriage?

I hope it’s not too vague what I said…the main point is that when something doesn’t work out, we can find consolation in the will of God, saying that He wanted/permitted this or that to happen for our sanctification maybe. But if it was my mistake, I can’t think this way anymore, can I?
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You apply for a job, and there are a lot of other elements you’re not taking into account, that being all the other people looking for the same job, your qualifications vs theirs, the interviewers personal judgements of you, as a person, and whether he woke up on the wrong side of the bed that morning…

If you make a mistake, hold yourself responsible for it, do what you can to improve things, forgive yourself, and move on, always finding your own way to Him.

I married the wrong person. The only woman I’ve ever been with, and after a nasty divorce, I’m celibate and single. I’m a lot happier this way, having owned up to the mistakes and problems ~I~ caused by ~my~ choices.
 
I think it can be a combination of things, including our own failure to truly discern things from a spiritual perspective and an act of intervention on God’s part or an act of His Will.

Here is an example from my own life: I wanted to join the Navy and when I finished my degree in Biology I tried to join. On the day I was to be sworn in I failed the physical due to signs of heart and kidney failure. That door slammed shut in my face.

Failing the physical was definitely an act of God. My trying to apply for military service was a combination of wanting to get away from a family situation, failing to pay attention to how the military would want me to use my degree in terms of genetic manipulation or even biological weaponry, fear of being alone, and having a sense of security.

It took about 6 months for me to pray and reflect enough to see the blessing my failing the physical was. I found another career that was certainly more in line with serving God not man, did not have to use my knowledge of biology and genetics in a way that would be sinful against God, learned to be independent and to deal more honestly with family concerns. It was not easy, I was unhappy for a long time because I was fighting God, but I eventually learned my lesson.

This door slamming shut in my face was God’s way of redirecting my life so I could be closer to Him. Over time I became more aware of how he spoke to me and better at discerning His will over mine. I am by no means perfect at it, but I can tell when He is nudging me to move a different direction a whole lot easier than early in my life.
 
It is written:
“we know that to them that love God, all things work together unto good, to such as, according to his purpose, are called to be saints” (Romans 8:28)
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“In all things give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you all” (1 Thessalonians 5:18)
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“giving thanks always for all things, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, to God and the Father” (Ephesians 5:21)
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It has also been spoken:
“I will lead the blind into the way which they know not: and in the paths which they were ignorant of I will make them walk: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight” (Isaiah 42:16)
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You must trust Christ’s omniscience. Your sins cannot possibly be greater than His mercy, nor can your works of sin outsmart His work of redemption.

If He could bring everything out of nothing (“necesse est dicere quod Deus ex nihilo res in esse producit”, Summa 1:45:2), light out of darkness (Genesis 1:3), power out of infirmity (2 Cor 12:9), and life out of death (Romans 6:9, Revelation 1:8), then He can also bring out sanctity out of your struggles, sins, falls, and imperfections. In fact, it is a small feat for the Mighty to Save for whom a thousand years is like one day - though it seems like a big deal to you since, you know, it’s your life.

Self-surrender and seeing God through secondary causes, these are graces for which blessed Peter struggled greatly, and with him, countless others. May he intercede for you, because great faith is needed to attain them.
 
As far as seeking a mate. Did the person seek the Lord’s approval of the mate, or not? If not then what would you expect?

Also does one seek the Lord’s guidance or approval in the fulfillment of anything? If not what would you expect the result to be? The bible teaches that we should acknowledge the Lord God in all that we do.

God will not prevent the fulfillment of His Word, and sees to it that His Word is fulfilled, therefore what is the request of the petitioner? And if God gives His Word that the request be granted then surly He will see to it that it is fulfilled. The Children of Israel coming out of Egypt to the “Promised Land” is the fulfillment of the Lord God’s Word given to Abraham.

But is the petitioner trusting the Lord God to know what is good for the petitioner? Or does the petitioner believe the fulfillment of the petition is good for the petitioner because the petitioner knows what the petitioner wants? Therefore the petitioner being correct about what the petitioner wants the petitioner believes the petitioner is correct about what the petitioner ought to have.
 
I understand your question Julie, its perfectly logical.

As many in this thread have said, God is in fact in FINAL control of everything. Still this does not mean things will always work out as He wants them too, for example, He would like that whole humanity will be saved, but we all know this is not the case.

If God allows things to happen is for a reason, that He knows, and we do not understand. From loosing a child to not passing an exam because the teacher hates you.

Things that are not in our control can be thought as God allowing these things to happen, but no always His will. God allows people to kill, still its not His will.

Another thing to notice is Satan. Satan will always be there to make your life a mess, to make you fall down, hit you, making you lose faith. Its normal for a Christian to go through this in his life.

For example, my Father’s partenrs betrayed him, just as Judas did with Jesus. God allowed this to happen, later we will understand why.

Still, there is an obvious differentaition to make. You cant attribute not getting the job to Satan or God allowing it, if you actually did nothing to get it, or there were people that did more.

Its tricky I know, but the key is to try your best and pray.
 
Julie_de_Sales said:
How do we know if in a specific situation the way things evolved (for the worse) was God’s will or the effect of our own bad actions? Let’s say that I really wanted a job and applied but didn’t got it, how do I know that it was the will of God and not my fault, because, maybe, I wasn’t good at the interview, or I’m not sufficiently skilled in that domain, etc. Or, for example, if I marry a guy and then I realise it’s not a good husband for me, can I say that God permitted this to happend or, on the contrary, it’s my fault for not having searched long enough, or didn’t discerned properly before marriage?

I hope it’s not too vague what I said…the main point is that when something doesn’t work out, we can find consolation in the will of God, saying that He wanted/permitted this or that to happen for our sanctification maybe. But if it was my mistake, I can’t think this way anymore, can I?
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We all blunder - the whole lot of us.

Suppose God made all our decisions, carried out all the actions and so on. We would live in a perfect world. But we would never learn about choices, making decisions, morality, and all the rest.

So God doesn’t make all our decisions. As CS Lewis put it, He lets us do things slowly and blunderingly, whereas He could do it all in the blink of an eye. But He refuses to do so.

A lot of decisions are minor and don’t need God’s (name removed by moderator)ut. I assume you don’t ask him what you should have for breakfast tomorrow.

On the other hand, some decisions are very important - vocation, marriage, handling finance wisely, discerning if you have a personal ministry, tricky moral questions. WIth these you might seek advice - from Scripture, prayer, other Christians. You then weigh up your choices and bite the bullet.

Occasionally God will make it very clear what you should do in an unmistakeable supernatural way. But in my experience that’s quite rare. He’s given us a brain and expects us to use it. That includes getting and acting on advice from other wise Christians.

But we’ll still make mistakes. And other people can make choices which affect us.

A lady might seem to be the perfect match. Until you get married. Then you find she’s got an Ex whom she’s still seeing, and has never told you about.

But is that your fault? Or is that her responsibility?

The point is that when you make a mistake, try to learn from it.

If you want something to wonder about, Christ chose 12 disciples, one of whom betrayed Him. Did Christ make a mistake?
 
Bob_Crowley said:
We all blunder - the whole lot of us.

Suppose God made all our decisions, carried out all the actions and so on. We would live in a perfect world. But we would never learn about choices, making decisions, morality, and all the rest.

So God doesn’t make all our decisions. As CS Lewis put it, He lets us do things slowly and blunderingly, whereas He could do it all in the blink of an eye. But He refuses to do so.

A lot of decisions are minor and don’t need God’s (name removed by moderator)ut. I assume you don’t ask him what you should have for breakfast tomorrow.

On the other hand, some decisions are very important - vocation, marriage, handling finance wisely, discerning if you have a personal ministry, tricky moral questions. WIth these you might seek advice - from Scripture, prayer, other Christians. You then weigh up your choices and bite the bullet.

Occasionally God will make it very clear what you should do in an unmistakeable supernatural way. But in my experience that’s quite rare. He’s given us a brain and expects us to use it. That includes getting and acting on advice from other wise Christians.

But we’ll still make mistakes. And other people can make choices which affect us.

A lady might seem to be the perfect match. Until you get married. Then you find she’s got an Ex whom she’s still seeing, and has never told you about.

But is that your fault? Or is that her responsibility?

The point is that when you make a mistake, try to learn from it.

If you want something to wonder about, Christ chose 12 disciples, one of whom betrayed Him. Did Christ make a mistake?
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Of course not.

Jesus chose him for reason we do not know and some that we do.

I do not speak of all of you. I know the ones I have chosen; but it is that the Scripture may be fulfilled, ‘HE WHO EATS MY BREAD HAS LIFTED UP HIS HEEL AGAINST ME.’ . . . He became troubled in spirit . . . and said, “Truly, truly, I say to you, that one of you will betray Me.” The disciples began looking at one another, at a loss to know of which one He was speaking. (NASB) John 13:18-22

So that the scripture may be fulfilled.
It may have been also, to show us how we mus love our enemis.
Or even show us how even our friends may not be what they seem.

Hut regarding marriage its a whole dfferent thing. Its something God joins, so that what God has joined let no man unjoin. As we well know, divorce is not acceptable in the eyes of God.

Regarding this very important decision in our life, we should pray a lot, so that God provides us with discernment.

People say all time: It did not work out, he/she was not for me, etc etc.

There is no perfcet man or perfect woman to marriage. The thing is learning to live with those imperfections, work to improve together, and stay stronge at all times, because satan will always be there trying to destroy your marriage, and mainly through woman, who is more spiritual than man. Satan says “God put her as your friend, hahaha let me put her as your worst enemy”

Then there is the other stuff, that people for instace marry a murderer, or etc. I do not understand how people can be mistaken so badly. And you clearly did not pray. Because God does not promote divorce and so he will not go against Himself, by making you marry a murderer.

Most of the times, if its not Christian or you accept you will have a hard time, tryong to convert them, or you can forget about it.

We have free will to marry who ever we want, God will not stop us, but we have to pray much and ask God for a signal if this person is the right one or not to spend our lifetime.

After all its just this temporary life, you dont have to marry yes or yes, you will not be married in heaven anyways.
 
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