Goethe's God

[Bubba_Switzler]

I was reading Worldly Wisdom: Great Books and the Meaning of Life which, in spite of it’s “humanistic” orientation, has quite a lot to say on the subject of theology, when I came across this:

Just as Goethe’s Mephistopheles is no garden variety corrupter and collector of souls, so Goethe’s God is no smiling savior of obedient spirits and pious do-gooders. Neither the Hebrew God, who demand subservience, nor the Christian God, who requires faith and love, Goethe’s God values something else. He prizes action, striving, risk. “Man errs so long as he will strive,” God tells Mephistopheles in the “Prologue in Heaven” that precedes the play. Human error or corruption or sin or whatever you want to name it is incidental. Error is the cost of striving, of action. And so Goethe’s God readily forgives it. What counts is exertion, deeds, doing something rather than nothing.

Now, of course, I know better than to rely on the Gospel according to Goethe for my Revelation. But he does have an interesting point. One of my unsolved theological questions is why we live or, more precisely, why we don’t send babies straight to heaven after baptism while they are still innocent and sinless. Goethe at least provides an answer to that.

 

[promethius]

Now, of course, I know better than to rely on the Gospel according to Goethe for my Revelation. But he does have an interesting point. One of my unsolved theological questions is why we live or, more precisely, why we don’t send babies straight to heaven after baptism while they are still innocent and sinless. Goethe at least provides an answer to that.

We don’t send babies “straight to heaven” after baptism, not because action is better than inaction despite the sin it causes, but rather because it would be an act of murder.

God ordains for each person on earth a time to live and breaths life into them. That means that, superior to an individual’s right to their own life, God holds the ultimate ownership and right to EVERYONE’s life. The act of taking another life unjustly is humanity seeking to supplant the power of God by counteracting God’s ordained time for the person here on earth… a grave grave grave sin. Murder such as this is one of the most vile sins because it not only is an offense against the person, but against the authority of God as well.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

We don’t send babies “straight to heaven” after baptism, not because action is better than inaction despite the sin it causes, but rather because it would be an act of murder. God ordains for each person on earth a time to live and breaths life into them. That means that, superior to an individual’s right to their own life, God holds the ultimate ownership and right to EVERYONE’s life. The act of taking another life unjustly is humanity seeking to supplant the power of God by counteracting God’s ordained time for the person here on earth… a grave grave grave sin. Murder such as this is one of the most vile sins because it not only is an offense against the person, but against the authority of God as well.

Well, yes, of course, I do seem to vaguely recall something about a Sixth Commandment from my time Catholic education. But that really doesn’t answer the question. Why is it a sin? What is God’s purpose for life that he would prefer a baby stay here and risk corruption and hell than to go straight to heaven? And, of course, that is merely direct way of asking a more general question about he purpose of life.

Goethe gives us an answer, however unreliable it may be.

 

[bmullins]

Well, yes, of course, I do seem to vaguely recall something about a Sixth Commandment from my time Catholic education. But that really doesn’t answer the question. Why is it a sin? What is God’s purpose for life that he would prefer a baby stay here and risk corruption and hell than to go straight to heaven? And, of course, that is merely direct way of asking a more general question about he purpose of life.

Goethe gives us an answer, however unreliable it may be.

The premise of your statement is that God has chosen to force a child to live life here instead of taking them straight to Heaven. The answer is because he will not force anyone to go to Heaven. He loves each of us enough to give us free will, that is a choice, to live with or without Him for eternity. He gives the child the choice.

Life in and of itself is not a bad thing. It’s a wonderful thing. There are many beautiful experiences here in this life that we can have, without being corrupt. God is giving each and every one of us the joy of living, and if we do it right, we live abundantly! If we think hard enough about it, most of the bad things that can happen to a person are things that we ‘men’ do to each other.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

The premise of your statement is that God has chosen to force a child to live life here instead of taking them straight to Heaven. The answer is because he will not force anyone to go to Heaven. He loves each of us enough to give us free will, that is a choice, to live with or without Him for eternity. He gives the child the choice.

I understand where you are going but I don’t think thats a fair inference. I am simply presuming, as Catholic teaching suggests, that a child who dies immediately after baptism will go straight to heaven. Whether or not the child is given a choice at that point is irrelevant.

If, on the other hand, the value of life was to make an informed choice of some sort, what we would imagine would be the difference between the choice of an adult and an infant, that would leave us with a quandary as to the fate of the child who dies (for whatever reason) after baptism for that child has been deprived of the opportunity for an informed choice.

Life in and of itself is not a bad thing. It’s a wonderful thing. There are many beautiful experiences here in this life that we can have, without being corrupt. God is giving each and every one of us the joy of living, and if we do it right, we live abundantly! If we think hard enough about it, most of the bad things that can happen to a person are things that we ‘men’ do to each other.

By all accounts, though, this life pales in comparison to the next one and certainly the certainty of heaven would be preferred to the experiences of this earth and the risk of hell.