Gold crown in sanctuary

[UpUpAndAway]

Ours is CLEARLY separated by
travertine steps.
No one can just “wander” into the Sanctuary and Altar area. .

So is ours, yet you might be amazed how often I have to -]throw people out of/-] ask people to leave the sanctuary :tsktsk:

 

[pianistclare]

So is ours, yet you might be amazed how often I have to [-]throw people out of[/-] ask people to leave the sanctuary :tsktsk:

Tourists? We don’t get any of that here. ������

 

[ProVobis]

So is ours, yet you might be amazed how often I have to -]throw people out of/-] ask people to leave the sanctuary :tsktsk:

Interestingly enough, one of the priests who was hearing confessions this morning had to step out and admonish some of the kids who were running around the sanctuary floor.

I guess they don’t teach sacredness anymore?

 

[pianistclare]

Interestingly enough, one of the priests who was hearing confessions this morning had to step out and admonish some of the kids who were running around the sanctuary floor.

I guess they don’t teach sacredness anymore?

Who’s “they”?

Shouldn’t parents do that?

 

[ProVobis]

Who’s “they”?

Shouldn’t parents do that?

I agree.

Then again, maybe they themselves don’t know what’s sacred.

 

[Phemie]

I remember reading comments about things taking place “on” the altar, but meaning “around” the altar. Was the sanctuary called the altar at some time?

I know language changes. When I was a new Catholic I read a book about a saint and it said he “served” at daily Mass. I thought it meant he as an altar server. Found out later it meant he attended and participated in the Mass. He was a lay person - Venerable Matt Talbot.

I think expressions like “on the altar” are regionalisms. That expression is quite common around here to refer to being in the sanctuary, whether as a server or a reader or an EMHC. It can lead to some serious misunderstandings, particularly if care is not taken to use proper terminology.

A college student was asked to read when she was home on her Christmas break. As she was doing the first reading it was her job to bring the Book of Gospels up in the entrance procession. I told he to put it on the altar.
She repeated, “On the altar?”
“Yes, on the altar. Father will get it from the altar when it’s time to read the Gospel.”

So, she went up in procession and proceeded to put the Book of Gospels on the floor in front of the altar. Because to her the sanctuary was “the altar” and the altar was “the table.” “But Mom,” she explained to her mother, “you always told us we had to behave perfectly when we were “on the altar”. Can you see how I would make that mistake??”

 

[Phemie]

Not only does the use of terminology change, it also varies from place to place and from language to language. I’m at a bit of a disadvantage here because I’m a native Anglophone living in a French-speaking country. What is meant in English might be different from what is meant in French. For example, every priest I know of in this archdiocese calls the sanctuary “the choir” (le chœur) even if there is no actual choir associated with it. For me, the choir is what makes up the part of the chancel not taken up by the sanctuary, and the two areas, choir and sanctuary, are distinct. :whacky:

I grew up in a Francophone community and our parish was mostly French. Altar servers where always called “enfants de choeur” when I was growing up.

 

[ProVobis]

I grew up in a Francophone community and our parish was mostly French. Altar servers where always called “enfants de choeur” when I was growing up.

Interesting. In Italy they are called chierichetti meaning “little clerics.”

 

[Phemie]

Not only does the use of terminology change, it also varies from place to place and from language to language. I’m at a bit of a disadvantage here because I’m a native Anglophone living in a French-speaking country. What is meant in English might be different from what is meant in French. For example, every priest I know of in this archdiocese calls the sanctuary “the choir” (le chœur) even if there is no actual choir associated with it. For me, the choir is what makes up the part of the chancel not taken up by the sanctuary, and the two areas, choir and sanctuary, are distinct. :whacky:

Oh, the sanctuary in my part of French Canada is called “le sanctuaire” not “le choeur,” although the word “sanctuaire” is also used to denote a sacred site such as Notre-Dame-du-Cap and Sainte-Anne-du-Bocage, pilgimage sites in Canada.

 

[tawny]

So is ours, yet you might be amazed how often I have to -]throw people out of/-] ask people to leave the sanctuary :tsktsk:

Ours is raised also. Yes, we have the same problem of people walking up into the Sanctuary to touch the Crucifix behind the Altar.

 

[felsguy]

I think expressions like “on the altar” are regionalisms. That expression is quite common around here to refer to being in the sanctuary, whether as a server or a reader or an EMHC. It can lead to some serious misunderstandings, particularly if care is not taken to use proper terminology.

A college student was asked to read when she was home on her Christmas break. As she was doing the first reading it was her job to bring the Book of Gospels up in the entrance procession. I told he to put it on the altar.
She repeated, “On the altar?”
“Yes, on the altar. Father will get it from the altar when it’s time to read the Gospel.”

So, she went up in procession and proceeded to put the Book of Gospels on the floor in front of the altar. Because to her the sanctuary was “the altar” and the altar was “the table.” “But Mom,” she explained to her mother, “you always told us we had to behave perfectly when we were “on the altar”. Can you see how I would make that mistake??”

“on the altar” certainly can mean (meant) “in the sanctuary,” at least in a conversational or unofficial way, in the several places in the US Midwest where I’ve lived over the years as in, when speaking of altar servers, “they looked so nice on the altar.”

Loved your example of the miscommunication, by the way.

 

[UpUpAndAway]

Tourists? We don’t get any of that here. ��

Neither do we. It’s the parishioners who are doing this, I’m afraid.

Interestingly enough, one of the priests who was hearing confessions this morning had to step out and admonish some of the kids who were running around the sanctuary floor.

I guess they don’t teach sacredness anymore?

Who’s “they”?

Shouldn’t parents do that?

I agree.

Then again, maybe they themselves don’t know what’s sacred.

That just sort of says it all: it’s hard to convince the kids to respect the sanctuary space when their parents and grandparents are the ones invading it all the time. I’d say about 65-70% of the people I eject from the sanctuary are over the age of 30. Among them, more than half are older than 65. :sad_yes:

I grew up in a Francophone community and our parish was mostly French. Altar servers where always called “enfants de choeur” when I was growing up.

That term is still used by some of the older members of our community, but “servant d’autel” is the favored way of referring to them these days.

Oh, the sanctuary in my part of French Canada is called “le sanctuaire” not “le choeur,” although the word “sanctuaire” is also used to denote a sacred site such as Notre-Dame-du-Cap and Sainte-Anne-du-Bocage, pilgimage sites in Canada.

That might be a variation in Québécois French. As far as I can tell, in France « sanctuaire » only means a sacred shrine that is usually a pilgrimage destination, as in the Sanctuaire de Lourdes (Lourdes shrine).

Ours is raised also. Yes, we have the same problem of people walking up into the Sanctuary to touch the Crucifix behind the Altar.

If that were the reason people were coming into the sanctuary, I’d be tempted to let it slide. That should give you an idea just how inane the explanations people do give to justify their presence in the sanctuary are (in the interest of charity, I won’t cite concrete examples)…:crying:

 

[Phemie]

That might be a variation in Québécois French. As far as I can tell, in France « sanctuaire » only means a sacred shrine that is usually a pilgrimage destination, as in the Sanctuaire de Lourdes (Lourdes shrine).

The first definition of “sanctuaire” in the Larousse dictionary is “partie de l’église, située autour de l’autel, où s’accomplissent les cérémonies liturgiques” so, while it may not be used in your area, it’s not a Québecois or even Acadian or Canadian variation.

 

[UpUpAndAway]

The first definition of “sanctuaire” in the Larousse dictionary is “partie de l’église, située autour de l’autel, où s’accomplissent les cérémonies liturgiques” so, while it may not be used in your area, it’s not a Québecois or even Acadian or Canadian variation.

Okay, so I guess the use of « chœur » to mean « sanctuaire » is a possible (northern) French variation. Frankly, it wouldn’t surprise me. We often march to the beat of a different drummer here. In fact, in many circumstances I’d say the whole band’s weird.

 

[Phemie]

Okay, so I guess the use of « chœur » to mean « sanctuaire » is a possible (northern) French variation. Frankly, it wouldn’t surprise me. We often march to the beat of a different drummer here. In fact, in many circumstances I’d say the whole band’s weird.

It is actually a third definition of the word “choeur” in the Larousse.

 

[UpUpAndAway]

It is actually a third definition of the word “choeur” in the Larousse.

Maybe I need to stop being lazy and actually open my copy before posting.

 

[Phemie]

Maybe I need to stop being lazy and actually open my copy before posting.

Far be it from me to suggest that you are being lazy. I just felt compelled to check it out as I do with all words that might just be Acadian inventions or 400 year old adaptations of legitimate French words. In this case, neither. Both words are legitimate for the area around the altar though one seems to be more commonly used in Canada than the other.

 

[SyroMalankara]

I recently got a catalog in the mail of rings and watches. They sell a ring that has a horizontal crown with a cross through it at a 45degree angle. It is a symbol to the Masons! Beware!

Hi Andrew, this is a Catholic/Orthodox symbol originally, that was later coopted by KnightsTemplar Masons and the churchof ChristianScience: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_and_Crown

The Jehovah Witnesses also used, then later dumped the symbol