Good books to help priests 'Reform the Reform'

[Floppy_ears]

Folks, do you have any suggestions for books to bring liberal priests around to a more worthy celebration of the Mass?

I know of a couple good books, including SPIRIT OF THE LITURGY, and THE OLD MASS AND THE NEW, along with THE LITURGY BETRAYED, but what I really want is a book I can give to a priest to help him on his way, to make up for deficiencies in his seminary formation which deeply affected the liturgy in a bad way.

I don’t want to offend him; rather, I want to guide him along in the right direction. At least one of the books above is a tad offensive (The Liturgy Betrayed) in both title and cover art (priest being stabbed in the back!). Though it’s a good book, I wouldn’t feel comfortable giving it to a priest.

 

[TheMc]

Folks, do you have any suggestions for books to bring liberal priests around to a more worthy celebration of the Mass?

I know of a couple good books, including SPIRIT OF THE LITURGY, and THE OLD MASS AND THE NEW, along with THE LITURGY BETRAYED, but what I really want is a book I can give to a priest to help him on his way, to make up for deficiencies in his seminary formation which deeply affected the liturgy in a bad way.

I don’t want to offend him; rather, I want to guide him along in the right direction. At least one of the books above is a tad offensive (The Liturgy Betrayed) in both title and cover art (priest being stabbed in the back!). Though it’s a good book, I wouldn’t feel comfortable giving it to a priest.

The single most helpful book I can give you for more worthily celebrating the OF is called the Missale Romanum of 1962. Help him learn the EF. It will forever change how he celebrates Mass in either form.

 

[Floppy_ears]

The single most helpful book I can give you for more worthily celebrating the OF is called the Missale Romanum of 1962. Help him learn the EF. It will forever change how he celebrates Mass in either form.

I’m looking for realistic book suggestions, not miracles!

I love the EF Mass, but the priests in my parish are not interested. Two of them are definitely not interested, and one would probably not be interested, according to my own estimations.

Anyway, books are what I am presently concerned with.

 

[MarkThompson]

[Deleted – Never mind, my suggesting was *The Spirit of the Liturgy, which you already mentioned. ]

 

[Floppy_ears]

I’m wondering if anyone has written a book about the direction Pope Benedict is trying to lead the Church, to a true Reform of the Reform, one that looks at what we have been doing, and then looks carefully at what the Council documents said, and about recent Church documents, and what we need to do. The book would be aimed at priests in particular, but wouldn’t assume much prior formation, given the hopeless formation so many received, but would not patronise them either. So, has anyone written that book or would anyone like to write it?

 

[drforjc]

James Hitchcock’s Recovery of the Sacred is a good read to understand why the reform needs reforming. It was originally published in 1974, I think, but still remains useful today. I do not absolutely agree with all the practical suggestions he makes towards the end of the book but I think the broader principles he postulates throughout the book generally hold true.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Any book you chose for this mission would be “a tad offensive”. It is not your place to educate your priests on the liturgy.

Instead I recommend praying for them and getting to know them. Then once a relationship is established you could pass on interesting articles, make recommendations for books you’ve read, start discussions about specific aspects of the liturgy.

But without any context, to start handing out books for them to read as if you were giving school assignments is condescending.

 

[Floppy_ears]

James Hitchcock’s Recovery of the Sacred is a good read to understand why the reform needs reforming. It was originally published in 1974, I think, but still remains useful today. I do not absolutely agree with all the practical suggestions he makes towards the end of the book but I think the broader principles he postulates throughout the book generally hold true.

Looks good to be sure, but new copies are not available at reasonable prices. But it is online: adoremus.org/RecoverySacred_Preface.html

Any book you chose for this mission would be “a tad offensive”. It is not your place to educate your priests on the liturgy.

Instead I recommend praying for them and getting to know them. Then once a relationship is established you could pass on interesting articles, make recommendations for books you’ve read, start discussions about specific aspects of the liturgy.

But without any context, to start handing out books for them to read as if you were giving school assignments is condescending.

It’s just annoying not having our priests get with the programme. If young lay sprites like me know what the Pope is doing, why can’t they? If I can read Church documents (which they ought to be reading and implementing), why can’t they?

Prayer is wonderful, but they keep doing their own thing and spoiling the Mass through numerous abuses every time.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Looks good to be sure, but new copies are not available, it seems.

It’s just annoying not having our priests get with the programme. If young lay sprites like me know what the Pope is doing, why can’t they? If I can read Church documents (which they ought to be reading and implementing), why can’t they?

Prayer is wonderful, but they keep doing their own thing and spoiling the Mass through numerous abuses every time.

Prayer is all that keeps us going!

I suggest again that you get to know your priests. Speak to them after Mass or at parish events, ask them about the Pope’s words, or specific church documents. Be charitable and respectful and you are likely to see MUCH more affect than just handing them a book and having them think you are a snot.

 

[Floppy_ears]

Prayer is all that keeps us going!

I suggest again that you get to know your priests. Speak to them after Mass or at parish events, ask them about the Pope’s words, or specific church documents. Be charitable and respectful and you are likely to see MUCH more affect than just handing them a book and having them think you are a snot.

I know our priests quite well. I know the pastor in particular. But I do not foresee, at least not any time soon, my being confident enough to bring this up. I am afraid I would be dismissed as a fusspot. I also fear provoking an angry reaction.

The documents are there. Priests ought to know about them. They ought to read them, to study them, and to implement them. I can see no reason why not. Aren’t the documents available free on the web? If simple lay folk know about documents and wish to see them implemented, then why on earth shouldn’t priests implement them? I know why not, but I will keep that to myself. Hence the very deep frustration and helplessness of ordinary Catholics.

 

[TheMc]

Any book you chose for this mission would be “a tad offensive”. It is not your place to educate your priests on the liturgy.

What if they sorely need it?

 

[Mrs_Sally]

I know our priests quite well. I know the pastor in particular. But I do not foresee, at least not any time soon, my being confident enough to bring this up. I am afraid I would be dismissed as a fusspot. I also fear provoking an angry reaction.

The documents are there. Priests ought to know about them. They ought to read them, to study them, and to implement them. I can see no reason why not. Aren’t the documents available free on the web? If simple lay folk know about documents and wish to see them implemented, then why on earth shouldn’t priests implement them? I know why not, but I will keep that to myself. Hence the very deep frustration and helplessness of ordinary Catholics.

I will pray for you, your frustration, and your priests. I am blessed to live in an area with a good bishop and orthodox, reverant priests. However, I have been to Mass in areas where the priests just seem oblivious to liturgical norms and it is frustrating.

Keep praying!

 

[TheMc]

It’s just annoying not having our priests get with the programme. If young lay sprites like me know what the Pope is doing, why can’t they? If I can read Church documents (which they ought to be reading and implementing), why can’t they?

Prayer is wonderful, but they keep doing their own thing and spoiling the Mass through numerous abuses every time.

The overarching issue here is almost always pride. Whether they are conscious of it or not (hopefully most are not), every time a priest commits abuses in the liturgy, they are saying:
“I know better than the church.”

 

[Floppy_ears]

The overarching issue here is almost always pride. Whether they are conscious of it or not (hopefully most are not), every time a priest commits abuses in the liturgy, they are saying:
“I know better than the church.”

Exactly. I’ve seen this phenomenon in myself, and people are often blind to it because they are immature in the spiritual life.

The book is there, the words are there, the rubrics are there, but I know better - these are merely suggestions from Holy Mother Church.

 

[TheMc]

Exactly. I’ve seen this phenomenon in myself, and people are often blind to it because they are immature in the spiritual life.

The book is there, the words are there, the rubrics are there, but I know better - these are merely suggestions from Holy Mother Church.

Yes! Exactly!

They could have done whatever they wanted with their lives, but they chose to became priests, and consequently, promised (implicitly) to say the black and do the red.

 

[Floppy_ears]

Yes! Exactly!

They could have done whatever they wanted with their lives, but they chose to became priests, and consequently, promised (implicitly) to say the black and do the red.

Would it be too obvious if I gave them one of Fr Z’s mugs for Christmas?

I don’t think there would be any doubt then!

I almost would do this only for the fact that they are quite expensive and could just end up being put in the bin.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Would it be too obvious if I gave them one of Fr Z’s mugs for Christmas?

I don’t think there would be any doubt then!

I almost would do this only for the fact that they are quite expensive and could just end up being put in the bin.

http://images2.cpcache.com/product/464411192v6_350x350_Front.jpg

Now that’s a good idea! Much more likely to get a positive response, especially since you say you know the priests. This gift would draw them in and encourage them in doing what they should. Maybe they’d start reading Father Z’s blog!

 

[Floppy_ears]

Now that’s a good idea! Much more likely to get a positive response, especially since you say you know the priests. This gift would draw them in and encourage them in doing what they should. Maybe they’d start reading Father Z’s blog!

You know, it occurred to me some time ago that it might create an even better impression if myself and 2 other parishioners gave a mug to each of the 3 priests. That would avoid the impression that this was an initiative by a lone crank, instead showing that it is a concern of several people.

Maybe a book with the mug would be good. Perhaps SPIRIT OF THE LITURGY or perhaps another book? Any suggestions?

 

[TheMc]

You know, it occurred to me some time ago that it might create an even better impression if myself and 2 other parishioners gave a mug to each of the 3 priests. That would avoid the impression that this was an initiative by a lone crank, instead showing that it is a concern of several people.

Maybe a book with the mug would be good. Perhaps SPIRIT OF THE LITURGY or perhaps another book? Any suggestions?

I would definitely go with the Spirit of the Liturgy. There’s so much there.

 

[Floppy_ears]

I would definitely go with the Spirit of the Liturgy. There’s so much there.

I know the pastor has read some of that book. He told me. So I know he is open to doing things properly, yet even he either permits abuses, or engages in them personally.