Good source for what Catholics DON'T believe?

[DarkLight]

I’ve noticed the hardest part of coming from a Protestant background isn’t understanding what Catholics do believe, but finding out what they don’t believe or don’t have to believe. I haven’t found any good sources on this - particularly since I keep finding a lot of arguments that go around with a bunch of different people saying different things. Does anyone have any good, preferably official, sources? I’ve been reading the Catechism but it’s not helping with this. I’ve been trying to get in contact with parish people but it’s incredibly hard.

Edit: Part of the problem is that I grew up on the ultra-conservative edge of Protestantism. Most materials seem to be aimed at people with backgrounds that are more liberal than Catholicism, rather than more conservative. So an example might be…we were taught that all Christians had to believe in 7-day young-earth creationism, because that was obviously what the Bible said. I keep turning up beliefs like that, and many of them cause a lot of problems and stress for me (like trying to keep up with a rather insane set of modesty rules, not knowing what a better standard of “appropriate” is).

 

[MaeganFlinchum1]

this is a question i also need the answer too!

 

[Wiseowl]

The fascination by Protestants with Catholicism and vise versa as well, is as old as the 100 AD.

 

[DarkLight]

The fascination by Protestants with Catholicism and vise versa as well, is as old as the 100 AD.

Huh?

 

[Joe_5859]

Interesting question. Is there an official teaching on what’s not official Catholic teaching?

Unfortunately, I cannot think of some sort of single volume anti-Catechism that would fit the bill.

Perhaps I’m just describing myself here, but speaking as a somewhat fastidious 21st century American, I think sometimes there is the tendency for us to look for the Church to spell out every. single. thing. And in great detail. And to have it all organized in an easy to read single document. With references. And online. With a good search engine.

It can be frustrating for someone like me, but the Church just doesn’t work that way. If a Catholic wants to believe that the world was created in six 24 hour days and is only 6000 years old, they can! If a Catholic wants to believe the each “day” in Genesis signfies a long period of time whereby the world was created and evolved over billions of years, they can believe that, too! The Church is clear on the essentials: we are all descended from one set of first parents who were endowed with the preternatural gifts, but then disobeyed God and earned Original Sin for the whole human family to follow. But the rest is often left open.

I’ve found it to really be freeing, though. We Catholics don’t all have to be cookie-cutter images of each other. The essential doctrines are the fenceposts. We don’t want to veer outside them into heresy. But there’s lots of room to move around within their boundaries.

 

[DarkLight]

Interesting question. Is there an official teaching on what’s not official Catholic teaching?

Unfortunately, I cannot think of some sort of single volume anti-Catechism that would fit the bill.

Perhaps I’m just describing myself here, but speaking as a somewhat fastidious 21st century American, I think sometimes there is the tendency for us to look for the Church to spell out every. single. thing. And in great detail. And to have it all organized in an easy to read single document. With references. And online. With a good search engine.

It can be frustrating for someone like me, but the Church just doesn’t work that way. If a Catholic wants to believe that the world was created in six 24 hour days and is only 6000 years old, they can! If a Catholic wants to believe the each “day” in Genesis signfies a long period of time whereby the world was created and evolved over billions of years, they can believe that, too! The Church is clear on the essentials: we are all descended from one set of first parents who were endowed with the preternatural gifts, but then disobeyed God and earned Original Sin for the whole human family to follow. But the rest is often left open.

I’ve found it to really be freeing, though. We Catholics don’t all have to be cookie-cutter images of each other. The essential doctrines are the fenceposts. We don’t want to veer outside them into heresy. But there’s lots of room to move around within their boundaries.

My issue is that’s a pretty good description of the way the branch of Christianity I came out of worked. There was an official position on just about everything that you were expected to believe. I’ve found what happens to me a lot is that I tend to carry over those expectations in the areas where there isn’t an official church teaching, even though in a lot of cases it’s actively detrimental to me to do so.

 

[St_Francis]

I’ve noticed the hardest part of coming from a Protestant background isn’t understanding what Catholics do believe, but finding out what they don’t believe or don’t have to believe. I haven’t found any good sources on this - particularly since I keep finding a lot of arguments that go around with a bunch of different people saying different things. Does anyone have any good, preferably official, sources? I’ve been reading the Catechism but it’s not helping with this. I’ve been trying to get in contact with parish people but it’s incredibly hard.

Edit: Part of the problem is that I grew up on the ultra-conservative edge of Protestantism. Most materials seem to be aimed at people with backgrounds that are more liberal than Catholicism, rather than more conservative. So an example might be…we were taught that all Christians had to believe in 7-day young-earth creationism, because that was obviously what the Bible said. I keep turning up beliefs like that, and many of them cause a lot of problems and stress for me (like trying to keep up with a rather insane set of modesty rules, not knowing what a better standard of “appropriate” is).

The problem is that a list of things Catholics do not have to believe would be incredibly long, and be constantly out of date as people thought up new crazy ideas.

But a lot of that stuff you can ask here

 

[DarkLight]

The problem is that a list of things Catholics do not have to believe would be incredibly long, and be constantly out of date as people thought up new crazy ideas.

But a lot of that stuff you can ask here

I’m sort of scared to. Would you really want to start a thread on what church teaching on modesty is around here? Last time I got anywhere near a controversial topic I got some pretty nasty attacks.

 

[JRKH]

WOW…I don’t know that there is such a thing as what you are looking for.
HERE is a listing of Catholic Dogmas.
Then of course the Catechism contains a “sure norm” for teaching the faith and so we are to accept what it contains…So basically if you are curious about something and don’t find it in the Catechism…We don’t have to believe it…

As mentioned in a post above…There are a number of things that the Church has not taken a declarative position on…the age of the earth and evolution being one of these.

Sorry we couldn’t be of more help.

But please feel free to ask any specific questions you have and maybe we can begin to compile the sort of reference you seek…

Peace
James

 

[Joe_5859]

I’m sort of scared to. Would you really want to start a thread on what church teaching on modesty is around here? Last time I got anywhere near a controversial topic I got some pretty nasty attacks.

Ha, yeah, that topic has historically not gone very well here on CAF.

 

[silicasandra]

Are you looking for a more exact list, or maybe something like “Common Myths about Catholic Beliefs”? If you’re looking for refutations of accusations against Catholics, some of the tracts available on the Catholic Answers regular website might be helpful.

 

[JRKH]

I’m sort of scared to. Would you really want to start a thread on what church teaching on modesty is around here? Last time I got anywhere near a controversial topic I got some pretty nasty attacks.

I HEAR YA…

The thing with these sorts of topics is that the Church, being universal and evident in so many cultures can’t really provide a “one size fits all” teaching regarding modesty.

The best she can do is to provide general guidelines based on the law of Loving our neighbor as our self. It sort of provides “questions” that one can ask themselves to determine if the correctness of a given matter.

In the case of modesty, which you mention above, She gives some insight into the matter HERE and even recognizes in item 2524 the fact that modesty varies from culture to culture.

The thing to remember is that we are not a faith of “Laws” and “rules” (all evidence to the contrary……). Rather we are a faith of the indwelling Spirit of God - of Love for our selves and our neighbor and springing forth from that Love is a desire to promote the kingdom of God and to not be a stumbling block to others.
Thus when discerning matters that are not clearly taught…Use the principle of Love as you guide and you cannot go too far wrong.

Peace
James

 

[Ruthie_again]

Since your old church was probably a “Bible-only” church, a good forum for specific questions would be “Sacred Scripture.” Just be aware that not all posters there are Catholics – and that some Catholics can be ignorant of what the Church believes.
forums.catholic-questions.org/forumdisplay.php?f=30

Here’s the Catechism on Scripture:
scborromeo.org/ccc/p1s1c2a3.htm
Pay special attention to the section, “The senses of Scripture”.

The first thing that drew me to the Church was the way she studies Scripture! We don’t take everything literally - it has to make sense. For instance, we take “He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned” (Mark 16:16, RSV) literally, but not “And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell.” (Mark 9:47, RSV)

To search the Catechism, go here:
scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

I must thank JRKH for the website on dogma! It is based on Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, by Dr. Ludwig Ott, which is still in print. That book is pretty difficult reading, though, like a graduate-level textbook. I’m glad JRKH mentioned the website – it’s like the Cliff’s Notes for Ott!
theworkofgod.org/dogmas.htm

P.S. be aware of Catholic-speak. Sometimes we define words a little differently. For instance, “charity” doesn’t mean only donating to good causes. It is our translation of “agape,” the Greek word for “unselfish love;” the word Jesus used when he said, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” (Mark 12:31, RSV)

 

[Erich]

Are you looking for a more exact list, or maybe something like “Common Myths about Catholic Beliefs”? If you’re looking for refutations of accusations against Catholics, some of the tracts available on the Catholic Answers regular website might be helpful.

I would guess that a fairly reliable source for what Catholics DON’T believe can probably be found at any anti-Catholic site which includes a list something like, “Catholics believe …” – as long as you remember to mentally insert the “DON’T” between “Catholics” and “believe”

 

[DarkLight]

Are you looking for a more exact list, or maybe something like “Common Myths about Catholic Beliefs”? If you’re looking for refutations of accusations against Catholics, some of the tracts available on the Catholic Answers regular website might be helpful.

The biggest issues aren’t the myths, but dealing with some of the differences that don’t come up as much. Particularly in cases where the stuff I grew up with has specific prescriptions on what you had to believe and the Catholic Church has no such thing. The 7-day creationism is a good example - I was taught that anyone who believed the Bible was the Word of God had to believe in 7-day creationism. The modesty stuff is another and perhaps a better example of how it’s a problem…it was essentially “don’t do anything that might cause a man to think about you sexually.” Which I quickly learned is pretty much impossible and ended up with some incredible guilt and self-consciousness problems.

There’s a lot of little things like that…what spiritual practices you should do is another one. We had a very specific regimen, church sunday morning and evening and wednesday night, bible study for 30min in the morning, prayers at night, along with expected “soul-winning” on a regular basis.

 

[JRKH]

The biggest issues aren’t the myths, but dealing with some of the differences that don’t come up as much. Particularly in cases where the stuff I grew up with has specific prescriptions on what you had to believe and the Catholic Church has no such thing.

Yea - Part of this can be quite tricky.

The 7-day creationism is a good example - I was taught that anyone who believed the Bible was the Word of God had to believe in 7-day creationism.

In the Church you grew up in…did they teach that the bread and wine of the Lords supper were the literal body and blood of Christ?
Something to consider when approaching these kinds of matters.

The modesty stuff is another and perhaps a better example of how it’s a problem…it was essentially “don’t do anything that might cause a man to think about you sexually.” Which I quickly learned is pretty much impossible and ended up with some incredible guilt and self-consciousness problems.

Not laughing at you but your comment about guys is pretty funny and all too often true…especially with teens and young adult males.
The Catholic Church essentially teaches this as well, but at the same time it tries to impress on it’s young men that they have a responsibility to control their own thoughts.
So - if you, in your choices of attire and actions are not deliberately trying to be thought of “sexually” then you are in the clear. If a fella thinks of you in that way anyway…well he has sinned…not you.

There’s a lot of little things like that…what spiritual practices you should do is another one. We had a very specific regimen, church Sunday morning and evening and Wednesday night, bible study for 30min in the morning, prayers at night, along with expected “soul-winning” on a regular basis.

As you may have gathered there are a great many devotional practices both public and private. Mass every day and multiple times on Sunday at most parishes, often times rosary devotions, bible studies, RCIA classes, organizations like Knights of Columbus, Sacred Heart society, Holy name society and so forth…Some parishes have 24 hour adoration chapels, others have periodic Eucharistic Adoration, benedictions and so forth…That is all before one gets into the private prayer and devotions of which there are a virtually infinite number…
The amount of freedom and opportunity for spiritual growth in the Catholic Church is nearly endless.

Praise God for His beautiful bride, The Church…

Peace
James

 

[silicasandra]

The amount of freedom and opportunity for spiritual growth in the Catholic Church is nearly endless.

Praise God for His beautiful bride, The Church…

Peace
James

I love being Catholic and that is a great deal of why. We aren’t all expected to respond to the same kinds of prayers or devotional practices in the same way and the definitive “list” of what Catholics are required to believe and do I think is actually quite small when compared to the more fundy-type churches I was familiar with growing up - the Church has principles, solidly rooted in Scripture and Tradition, and the “rules” flow naturally from that. They can still be hard to follow, but they make sense.

Take the idea of vocation, for instance. For Protestants, pretty much everyone is expected, without exception, to get married and have children. In Catholicism, you have many more choices than that. Individuals are responsible for discerning their own path instead of having every little thing dictated for them. It wouldn’t be appropriate for everyone to do the same thing the same way (if I’m not mistaken, this is part of what a “charism” is…)

 

[Armor_of_Light]

I know the Church does not teach hand-holding during the ‘Our Father’.

We don’t have to believe that! Yet…

 

[haastiin]

Since your old church was probably a “Bible-only” church, a good forum for specific questions would be “Sacred Scripture.” Just be aware that not all posters there are Catholics – and that some Catholics can be ignorant of what the Church believes.
forums.catholic-questions.org/forumdisplay.php?f=30

Here’s the Catechism on Scripture:
scborromeo.org/ccc/p1s1c2a3.htm
Pay special attention to the section, “The senses of Scripture”.

The first thing that drew me to the Church was the way she studies Scripture! We don’t take everything literally - it has to make sense. For instance, we take “He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned” (Mark 16:16, RSV) literally, but not “And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out; it is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell.” (Mark 9:47, RSV)

To search the Catechism, go here:
scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

I must thank JRKH for the website on dogma! It is based on Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, by Dr. Ludwig Ott, which is still in print. That book is pretty difficult reading, though, like a graduate-level textbook. I’m glad JRKH mentioned the website – it’s like the Cliff’s Notes for Ott!
theworkofgod.org/dogmas.htm

P.S. be aware of Catholic-speak. Sometimes we define words a little differently. For instance, “charity” doesn’t mean only donating to good causes. It is our translation of “agape,” the Greek word for “unselfish love;” the word Jesus used when he said, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” (Mark 12:31, RSV)

Thanks, Ruthie. I think that’s the right track to follow. In this CAF someplace there’s a thread about DISPENSATIONALSIM as viewed from a Catholic viewpoint. You can also do a web search like “catholic vs dispensationalist.” Searches about sola scriptura will help with understanding why knowledgeable Catholics understand the balance provided by Scripture, Tradition, and the Magisterium (there are some threads on that in the Apologetics section here, too). You are, however, correct about some of us not being fully conversant in our own catechism. I recently received a communication from a Catholic who said some tenets of Islam are valid “because it is a Jesus-based religion, too.” OY!

Also, a little farther up the page, regarding the Catholic’s freedom to believe in young-earth creation, a compare-and-contrast search for creationism as seen by the Church can be helpful. In the wider view, yes it is true, there is no compendium that I can think of that says, “This is what Catholics don’t believe.” But this is a wonderful place to explore questions like that, and who knows? Someone among us may start such a compendium from here! :newidea:

 

[fred_conty]

I’ve noticed the hardest part of coming from a Protestant background isn’t understanding what Catholics do believe, but finding out what they don’t believe or don’t have to believe. I haven’t found any good sources on this - particularly since I keep finding a lot of arguments that go around with a bunch of different people saying different things. Does anyone have any good, preferably official, sources? I’ve been reading the Catechism but it’s not helping with this. I’ve been trying to get in contact with parish people but it’s incredibly hard.

Edit: Part of the problem is that I grew up on the ultra-conservative edge of Protestantism. Most materials seem to be aimed at people with backgrounds that are more liberal than Catholicism, rather than more conservative. So an example might be…we were taught that all Christians had to believe in 7-day young-earth creationism, because that was obviously what the Bible said. I keep turning up beliefs like that, and many of them cause a lot of problems and stress for me (like trying to keep up with a rather insane set of modesty rules, not knowing what a better standard of “appropriate” is).

There will never be a complete list of what catholics do not believe. Can’t be.

What catholics must believe is what the church infallibly defines in faith and morals.
Yet there is also tradition which contains all truths of the faith. But tradition is the unbroken continuity of the Church in her teachings which have yet to be completely defined.

And the morals are defined as science developes new technologies which are constantly being created. The morality of these is defined as they develope over time.

So there will never be such a list.

There will be an incomplete list of those things that the church does not approve. Because as new ideas in faith are presented, the church looks into their validity and then determines if they are correct or not. This is also an unending process.

Just a few thoughts.