Goodbye Good Men ( Need Educative Constructive Orthodox Reviews )

[centurionguard]

Years ago I read one of the Catholic Churches most controversial books ever published (Micheal S. Rose copyright 2002)
GOODBYE GOOD MEN

I would sincerely appreciate constructive criticism with regards to this book. Both positive and not so positive with out this post getting out of hand. In truth only those who have actually read this book need reply. For the benefit of those here at CAF who have never read this book here is a brief General Description:

These days Catholics and non-Catholics alike are asking, “How did the American Catholic priesthood go from an image of wise, strong men like Spencer Tracy in Boys Town and Bing Crosby in Going My Way, to an image of “pedophile priests”?” In the best-selling book Goodbye, Good Men, Catholic author and investigative reporter Michael S. Rose provides the shocking answer - an answer that you won’t hear from the mainstream news media!
Now, by special arrangement with the publisher, St. Joseph Communications has produced an exclusive audio version of Goodbye, Good Men read by popular Catholic apologist and radio personality Tim Staples. A one-time seminarian that experienced first-hand many of the types of incidents recounted in this eye-opening book, Staples brings a real passion to the narration that greatly enhances the presentation of this challenging material.

The Root of the Problem

  People around the nation and the world are still reeling over the recent revelations of serious clerical sexual abuse. In the introduction to his runaway bestseller, Michael Rose writes, "I researched and wrote this book over the past two years, interviewing more than 150 people, as a professional investigative journalist for the Catholic press, without any idea that the Boston debacle and its many ramifications would blow up just as Goodbye, Good Men was going to press. Although I did not set out to write a book about clerical sex abuse, what I discovered provides at least part of the answer to the burning question: How could this have happened?"       In Goodbye, Good Men, you'll discover documented evidence that the root of this problem - both the cover-up and the sexual scandals themselves - reaches all the way back to the very place where genuine vocations to the priesthood are supposed to be nurtured and developed: the Catholic seminary. Rose powerfully relates how many men who support the teachings of the Church, especially in the area of sexual morality, are rejected or "written off" as "uncharitable" and "homophobic," while openly gay or dissenting seminarians are given preferential treatment and then receive Holy Orders. In short, the Catholic priesthood is being systematically "hijacked" in order to change the Catholic Church from within!

Spiritual Sickness

 In 11 CDs or cassettes, Tim Staples reads Mr. Rose's powerful evidence that radical liberalism, like that found on many college campuses, has infiltrated the Catholic Church and tried to overthrow her traditional beliefs, standards, and disciplines - especially Church teachings on sexuality. Rose tells us how, in bringing the "sexual revolution" into the Church, liberals have welcomed - and even preferred - radicalized active homosexuals to orthodox seminarians in the name of "diversity" and "tolerance." But now that "tolerance" has been exposed for what it is - a toleration of criminal acts.
  Much of the material presented in this book will come as a surprise - even a shock - to many of the Catholic faithful. But as Rose reveals, these problems are well known within the "inner circles" of the Catholic hierarchy, especially among bishops and priests. What Rose uncovers in his unflinching treatment of this highly sensitive material is, in his words, "a profound spiritual problem, a sickness of untold proportions" showing how the very institutions charged with inculcating Catholic theology and discipline have come to prefer gay priests to straight ones, pop psychology to religious devotion, and Playboy to the pope!

Warning: This set contains explicit material intended for mature listeners!

What You’ll Discover:

* Why many qualified candidates for the priesthood have been turned away for political reasons over the past three decades
* How, through the seminaries, liberals have brought a "moral meltdown" into the Catholic priesthood
* Why dissenters from Catholic teaching - including teaching on homosexuality - have been rewarded
* How gay seminarians are encouraged to "act out" or "explore their sexuality" in highly inappropriate ways
* Why a constant emphasis on the end of the world can lead to mental illness
* And much, much more!

First Critique Comes from New Oxford Review
newoxfordreview.org/article.jsp?did=1202-rose

 

[Cluny]

Several Catholic newspapers, including the National Catholic Register (yes, that’s Register and not Reporter) examined Michael Rose’s allegations in this book and found them, to put it sweetly, inaccurate.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I read this book and was not convinced of the premise the author put forward due to his lack of actual evidence to support it.

The evidence he used was anecdotal at best. He used very few cases and in those he relied heavily upon information provided by men who were asked to leave the seminary or say that they left on their own.

The problem with this is that no seminary or diocese (or religious order/congregation/community) will provide any information to a third party as to why an individual was asked to leave or if they left on their own. So in essence, we only have one side of the story and that from someone who may be disgruntled.

In one of the cases, that he seems to rely on largely, I know someone who was at that seminary during the period the book covers. This priest assures me that the individual that left did not leave for the reasons presented and what was spoken of did not occur.

 

[Shin]

It is clear that we live in times in which there are very many bad priests and very many poor seminaries – and of what good priests there are many too of these are poorly taught and have problems and flaws too because of the bad seminaries and bad education.

Now, this being the case, there will be inevitable horrors as the spiritual fruit of this.

So, truly it is not surprising to find a book like ‘Goodbye, Good Men’. What is however, a problem is the cover up that is still ongoing about the matter from on high and the lack of responsibility taken.

This has been clear again and again – it is not only that this has happened, it is the lack of responsibility taken and the lack of justice done.

Speculative reasons for why abound. But the lack of justice done is not new, the lack of enforcement of discipline is one of the fruits of the leadership after and drawing on Vatican Council II.

We read there’s an ‘American Catholic Church’ and a ‘Canadian Catholic Church’ and so forth, and we regularly learn of dissent of many bishops from the Popes – And hear threats of public and not only concealed disobedience – and frankly, we have to witness poor to no enforcement and poor witness from the Pope and Vatican on many sins as well.

This is because following the intentions of the Popes after the Council it is a time of the ‘medicine of mercy’ where rather than enforcement and condemnation of sins one should only speak positively about the faith.

The recent Popes despite having responsibility for enforcement also put it aside because of ‘collegiality’ another part of the Second Vatican Council. The Popes are also responsible for having elected and put into place all the bishops who have problems.

What this has resulted of in effect is no sins are condemned and people are free to commit them without condemnation, and what was once sin is no longer regarded by many as such – and even those who genuinely want to know how to be good have great difficulty because of the confused teachings.

How can the faithful condemn sins and guide people in good and evil if condemnation of them from the Vatican is only in the vaguest, softest and most general of terms, catering to the world rather than the Faith?

The St. Joseph Foundation has a web page – you can go visit it. It lists many canon law cases – and how though they are clear cases of violations, no action was taken. In other words – the laws are on the books, but not even the Vatican obediently enforces them.

When was the last time you heard or saw of a priest practicing liturgical abuse corrected? People complain but they are afraid to draw the proper conclusion – The Vatican has abdicated responsibility in many cases, and the bishops are the ones put in place by the recent Popes – they are responsible for these sinful bishops and the priests they choose.

So, if we read a book like ‘Goodbye, Good Men’, regardless of the details we should not be surprised. When abominable sins of other types happen – abominable sins of these types will happen, they bear witness to the apostasy and corruption that we are experiencing.

The cover up of it all has many reasons for existing – this is after all supposed to be a ‘Springtime of the Church’, full of the good fruits of the Second Vatican Council – not a time stifled by the smoke of Satan.

What is clear is that if we are to escape from times like these penance and the taking of responsibility is required. Collegiality must not trump responsibility, and responsibility of enforcement of Church law must be taken, and the lack of it in the past is what should be apologized for – It is not to so much to others outside the Church that the Popes should apologize for, not for long past history – There should be an apology to the lay faithful of recent decades for the total disasterous elections of bad bishops, tolerance of bad seminaries, and lack of enforcement of Church law and the cover up of all these events by only speaking in good and general terms.

Let me add that while we should evangelize positively, apologists who cover up these matters do no ultimate service to the believers who will discover them eventually – the truth comes out. These troubles change not the Church as the true destination for all mankind – they only bear witness to its true nature as an enduring place of both sinners and saints, high and low.

 

[Shin]

Sigh, perhaps I said too much. But it is a difficult situation.

May God have mercy, forgiveness and help.

 

[centurionguard]

Sigh, perhaps I said too much. But it is a difficult situation.

May God have mercy, forgiveness and help.

Actually; I thought you gave a equitable forthright assessment review with regards to this book.

True; there is a fair amount of conjecture that leads to speculation unsubstantiated by unequivocal fact.

All I can only say is that with what can be discerned and confirmed as genuine fact keeps me respectfully vigilant.

 

[Shoshana]

My apiritual director had me read the book and he said that a lot of what was said in the book is true. I can say in all honesty I was appalled. Not a book I would have a person not mature in the faith read…My director also said that there are many priests who are homosexual, otherwise there would be no vocations. We would be without the number of priests we have today.

The Legionnaires are now in trouble qwith their founder.

Where sin proliferates, grace abounds…