Gratiae gratis datae and charismatic gifts

[workinprogress]

This is also a condensed version, of course, of what the priest learned in his good seminary and he may have more to add next time.

charismatic graces don’t have as immediate purpose self-sanctification but for benefit of others and the Church (like papal infallibility)

they are outside the realm of personal merit

an act of charity gets one a merit/ prophecy doesn’t

they are not part of the Christian life of an individual

they can be given to one not in supernatural grace (like Caiaphus
talking about one man dying for the good of many)

they are not habits and not objects of merit and it is at least a venial sin to wish for them

 

[Joseph_Bilodeau]

I’m not sure I understand that last sentence. How can it be a sin for me to unite my will with God’s by desiring any gift He might wish to give me?

 

[cbp07]

I don’t understand either? How can it be a sin when Paul expressly tells us or the church at cornith to desire the best gift? He also mentions that he wishes or would like it if everyone spoke in tounges? He also mentions that at time he prays with his mind and at time he prays with his spirit where his mind is useless or understanding is unfruitful. He ( Paul ) is not talking about moanings and groanings here!

 

[workinprogress]

I don’t know but it might have to do with humility. Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, now our Pope, asked to retire. It may have been for that reason the Holy Spirit chose him. St. Padre Pio didn’t enjoy the gifts he had even though he could do some cool things with them. I posted under “divine graces” in the moral theology forum, a list of demonic spirit signs and one is attachment to consolations (like, I guess, a feeling of ecstacy or saying something profound). The litany of humility has us ask to be delivered from the desire to be looked to for counsel (if I had humility I would not post my opinions so much based on my speculations and some things I heard that are not Church teachings). Maybe it says to God we somehow have the stuff or the spiritual disposition to make use of those gifts. We could fall into Pride thinking we had “the stuff” to be an unfiltered administrator of those graces. Most of us waste the little gifts.
These charismatic gifts may be wished for by well-intentioned people to serve Christ, but Satan could end up speaking through one with enough Pride to open that door for him because Satan apes God’s actions in us (or something like that). Possessed people speak in different languages unknown to them and ministers have predicted the end of the world and have driven people further from God’s truth in general (not to mention the Bible says we’ll never know when the end will come).
I think we should ask God for graces we need for certain problems in our life and in our quest for a better relationship with Him and not to be something special–even if we think it would help him more. Stick with the “doing the little things” spirituality of Therese of Liseaux and God may react to that humility with a gift of prophecy or bilocation–or not. Make yourself His tool and you may become a big tool of His in some public way–or not.
You may not like what would come if you could speak in tounges or levitate right now. You might be nearly adored by some charismatics as John the Babtist was before they realized he passed them to Jesus’s care, considered suspect by non-charismatics, looked to by the curious and betrayed if you don’t meet someone’s expectations. You would certainly have to be far more holy because God would expect more things of you as I believe he does consecrated souls–to handle correctly such a powerful gift. To whom much is given, from him/her, much is expected.
These are just my guesses, but ask someone far more qualified. You can’t go wrong with a priest or theologian who accepts wholeheartedly the teachings of the Church and cares much for the writings of the popes, whether or not he prefers the tridentine mass and the earlier catechisms for most things.

 

[workinprogress]

Is it the charismatic gifts Paul mentions specifically or in context? I think he would be happy to see it happening but only if under the right circumstances–like someone just getting it (like when Fr Corapi recounted answering a heresy of modernists in Latin America in a way he felt to be like automatic and something he wouldn’t have preconceived before saying). I believe he prefered prophecy in one’s own language to tongues. Both would carry a message, but the second requires a middle-man.

I could be wrong but I didn’t make this up. It’s not against tongues, prophecy, levitation, etc., but it’s maybe against one thinking one can handle it when we waste so many little graces. If one not in supernatural grace can receive it, it must be something we shouldn’t think to ask for because Pride would have us wanting it after reading the original post.

Anyway, Check the Catechism or try to find the source of this. As I wrote above the posting of the signs of divine grace in the “testing of spirits–the good things” post, there’s a Dominican who wrote a book and his name is Fr. Royo (sp?) Marin. Maybe it’s in there.

 

[workinprogress]

I think I didn’t phrase things right and maybe the priest didn’t either, but I don’t know. There are prayers for the 7 gifts of the Holy spirit and there’s nothing bad about wanting to become Pope someday if you’re a guy. I think he may have meant extraordinary gifts like reading souls, speaking in tounges, etc. I mean, these aren’t like gifts from Santa Claus on Christmas where you show all your friends your new stuff. You don’t say “Check out what I got…piety…isn’t that so cool?” You may get one of the regular 7 gifts (or all in varying degrees as you can handle them or maybe they are expressed more or less effectively based upon the filter you have built up in your soul by sins–unless God can bypass them) as you need them or as God needs for you to use them. I don’t know how that all goes. I doubt any of the Church’s listed 7 would bring you merit since they are freely given, but you might get merit for using them when needed.
I think Paul was happy if God gave everyone the ability to prophecy in the way we’d like another priest who could read souls today. I don’t think we should ask for the special gifts like reading souls because, if we read someone’s lusty thoughts, and we were weak in that area ourselves, we could fall in that area ourselves. Do-gooders would feel the burden of being superheroes but what if you were crippled? How could you bring justice?

I think God raises up little people with big faith, but Satan lifts up anyone with little faith. Watch your Pride. Ask that God willing, you can get any of the 7 or something else you really need.

 

[workinprogress]

I think I didn’t phrase things right and maybe the priest didn’t either, but I don’t know. There are prayers for the 7 gifts of the Holy spirit and there’s nothing bad about wanting to become Pope someday if you’re a guy. I think he may have meant extraordinary gifts like reading souls, speaking in tounges, etc. I mean, these aren’t like gifts from Santa Claus on Christmas where you show all your friends your new stuff. You don’t say “Check out what I got…piety…isn’t that so cool?” You may get one of the regular 7 gifts (or all in varying degrees as you can handle them or maybe they are expressed more or less effectively based upon the filter you have built up in your soul by sins–unless God can bypass them) as you need them or as God needs for you to use them. I don’t know how that all goes. I doubt any of the Church’s listed 7 would bring you merit since they are freely given, but you might get merit for using them when needed.
I think Paul was happy if God gave everyone the ability to prophecy in the way we’d like another priest who could read souls today. I don’t think we should ask for the special gifts like reading souls because, if we read someone’s lusty thoughts, and we were weak in that area ourselves, we could fall in that area ourselves. Do-gooders would feel the burden of being superheroes but what if you were crippled? How could you bring justice?

I think God raises up little people with big faith, but Satan lifts up anyone with little faith. Watch your Pride. Ask that God willing, you can get any of the 7 or something else you really need.

But like I say, read about this from true loyal to Rome experts and books by true experts like these