Grave sin versus Mortal sin

[fultonfish]

There was a question posed to the moderators sort of / kind of like when is a grave sin a mortal sin, that kind of thing.

In my opinion, the question is worth posting and getting a discussion started.

The “dumbing down” of the Catholic religion, in my opinion, has resulted in a lot of confusion (to be charitable). Expressions such as “serious sin” and “grave sin” seen to have replced mortal sin and venial sin. People used to understand what mortal sin and venial sin were. But since Vatican 2 ??] other alternate expressions with vague definitions have started to be used, and now nobody has a clue as to what one kind of is and isn’t.

[Am I being clear? And is this the right place to post this “issue”?]

 

[teachccd]

There was a question posed to the moderators sort of / kind of like when is a grave sin a mortal sin, that kind of thing.

In my opinion, the question is worth posting and getting a discussion started.

The “dumbing down” of the Catholic religion, in my opinion, has resulted in a lot of confusion (to be charitable). Expressions such as “serious sin” and “grave sin” seen to have replced mortal sin and venial sin. People used to understand what mortal sin and venial sin were. But since Vatican 2 ??] other alternate expressions with vague definitions have started to be used, and now nobody has a clue as to what one kind of is and isn’t.

[Am I being clear? And is this the right place to post this “issue”?]

In the CCC we find the terms mortal and venial sin. Mortal sin involves three parts: 1) grave matter (something that is serious in nature) 2) full knowledge (knowing that something is serious in nature) and 3) full consent (giving your full assent of the will to commit the offense in spite of its severity)

Mortal sin severs your relationship with God and removes the sanctifying grace received at baptism. The normative remedy is penance. (sacrament of reconciliation)

Venial sin removes charity from the soul but does not sever your relationship with God. A prayer of contrition or participation in the Eucharist removes venial sin.

Your claim is very valid as I teach the pre-baptism classes at my parish. I have a captive audience once a month and many have never heard of the terms. It is shocking and I know that there are some of you out there who think that I am blowing this out of proportion. Your average pewsitter can probably give you a definition but many who identify themselves as Catholic cannot. Traditional teachings still exist however there are many Catholic theologians who are presenting many alternatives to mortal sin. They tend to swing towards the “fundamental option” idea whereby no single act can be a mortal sin. Rather it is your ongoing choice either to be for or against God.

I could go on but if any Catholic were to just pull out the Catechism of the Catholic Church and read it they would find the teachings that we all deserve. And the CCC is post- Vatican II…teachccd

 

[Joe_Kelley]

In the CCC we find the terms mortal and venial sin. Mortal sin involves three parts: 1) grave matter (something that is serious in nature) 2) full knowledge (knowing that something is serious in nature) and 3) full consent (giving your full assent of the will to commit the offense in spite of its severity) . .

In teaching I note that *1) grave matter *is what we can observe of the sin. We then judge the sin to be a grave sin, some would say serious sin. This is an objective judgment on available facts. It is the same sor the same action in all cases.

For the sin to be mortal in a particular case requires conditions 2 & 3, which we cannot judge in the case of others, but only in the matter of our own sins.

Thus we may say that someone committed a grave sin, but we can only judge that a mortal sin was committed when we are the sinner.

This is where people have a problem with the admonition “Judge not”. It applies to mortal sin, but not to grave sin.

 

[Roman_Army]

It is my understanding that the expressions “mortal sin,” “grave sin,” and “serious sin” are all synonymous and interchangeable. They express one and the same thing which is the three conditions: 1. Grave matter (an object in violation of one or more of the Ten Commandments), 2. Full knowledge of its sinful character, and 3. Deliberate consent of the will.

Now, where it gets a little confusing for most people including myself is Venial Sin. The Catechism defines Venial Sin as: 1. a violation the law in a grave matter but without sufficient knowledge or deliberate consent, or 2. a violation of the law in a less serious matter with full knowledge and deliberate consent. However, the Catechism unfortunately fails to provide a much needed and useful definition or even an example of “less serious matter” in the second type of venial sin. Now, according to the Catholic Encyclopedia, a less serious matter is when one violates a law in such a way that does not preclude the end goal of the law. Perhaps examples would be borrowing something without permission which would violate “thou shalt not covet your neighbor’s goods” but would not prevent the end goal which is to not deprive one’s neighbor of their goods since one does intend to return it. Perhaps another example would be Supermarket sampling, in which the person has a tendency to sample a few grapes in the produce department, it violates “Thou shalt not steal” but one is not depriving the store of the profit from selling the whole pack of grapes just by stealing one or two little grapes. Further if you go to the cash register and say “I need to pay for just one or two grapes I sampled” the cashier would probably laugh at you and say to not worry about it. Or another example is when one lies in order to simply avoid offending someone in a trivial matter, or when one gossips about someone else about trivial unimportant things that would not cause grave harm to their reputation. Sometimes lust can also be a venial sin. And so on and so forth. Such venial sins need not be confessed daily to a priest, they can be remitted through prayer, a Church approved blessing (especially with holy water), a Church approved indulgence, the reception of the sacraments, asceticism, or a good work of charity.

 

[Hietanen]

Excerpts from the Revelations of Saint Bridget of Sweden

Christ speaks: “The smallest sin is enough to damn anyone delighting in it who does not repent.”

prophecyfilm.com/revelations/book1/b1_chapter32.htm

The Mother of God speaks “They do not consider that the least little sin a person delights in is enough to send him or her to eternal punishment. Since God does not let the least little sin go unpunished nor the least good go unrewarded, they will always have a punishment inasmuch as they have a constant intention of sinning, and my Son, who sees their heart, counts that as an act.”

prophecyfilm.com/revelations/book1/b1_chapter37.htm

Christ speaks: “But if you take pleasure in committing even a slight sin, which you know to be a sin, and you do so trusting to your own abstinence and presuming on grace, without doing penance and reparation for it, know that it can become a mortal sin.”

prophecyfilm.com/revelations/book3/b3_chapter19.htm

These are not made up words or thought, but Church approved revelations!

The Revelations of Saint Bridget were accorded an exceptionally high degree of authenticity, authority and importance from an early date. Pope Gregory XI (1370-78) approved and confirmed them and judged them highly favorably, as did Boniface IX (1389-1404) in the papal Bull Ab origine mundi, par. 39 (7 Oct 1391). They were later examined at the Council of Constance (1414-18) and at the Council of Basel (1431-49), both judging them to be in conformity with the Catholic faith; The Revelations were also strongly defended by numerous highly regarded theologians, including Jean Gerson (1363-1429), Chancellor of the University of Paris and Cardinal Juan de Torquemada (1388-1468).

 

[Roman_Army]

Heitanan:

1. St. Bridget’s revelation did not specify which type of “small sin” or “slight sin” that merited eternal punishment. Perhaps what was meant was a small or slight mortal sin. Not all mortal sins are the same, some are bigger than others.
2. Certainly, unrepented and unrepaired venial sins can lead one to commit mortal sins. Not that the unrepented venial sin by itself on its own becomes a mortal sin. Certainly, also venial sins are punished temporarily whether in this life or in purgatory after death.
3. Private revelations are not part of the deposit of faith and are by no means doctrine. When the Church approves of them it does not say they are right or wrong, or true or false, but merely that they do not express heresy and that the faithful have the option of believing them.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

How do we reconcile this with Matthew 5:19

19* Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.