Great book on the libertarian mindset for Catholics

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If you’ve read this title before, it’s worth pointing out that a new edition has been releasted. Agree or disagree with his thesis, this book will really challenge the way you think about the role of liberty, subsidiarity, and self-accountability in Catholicism. Note that he is not promoting a political party (capital L), but a philosophical mindset (lower case). I highly recommend this.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1729621236
 
I’ve heard good things about this book. Alas, I have yet to read it.
 
Well get going! I didn’t mention in the OP, but Randy is a friend of mine. Coached me through publishing my book on apologetics. I didn’t want it to seem I was pushing his title just for that reason. It really is an engaging read. Good stuff.
 
I’ll check it out. I’m not a libertarians, or an anarchist for that matter, but I did identify as both at one point and still find myself influenced by ideas and writings of both.

As a caveat though, I’ll share this article from Edward Feser regarding his own thoughts on libertarianism and natural law.

 
StudentMI said:
I’ll check it out. I’m not a libertarians, or an anarchist for that matter, but I did identify as both at one point and still find myself influenced by ideas and writings of both.

As a caveat though, I’ll share this article from Edward Feser regarding his own thoughts on libertarianism and natural law.
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Will definitely read this. Also not a libertarian, but the viewpoint influences my thought considerably.
 
Tarsier said:
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mrsdizzyd:
How does he deal with the abortion/pro-life issue?
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I’m not sure what the issue is. Are you thinking it is contradictory to be a pro-life libertarian?
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I’m trying to get a sense for what his version of Libertarianism looks like.

I suppose an individual can be both pro-life and libertarian, but I’d be very Interested to hear how he would end up getting behind legal restrictions to abortion (for instance) while remaining consistent in his approach to libertarianism.
 
mrsdizzyd said:
I’m trying to get a sense for what his version of Libertarianism looks like.

I suppose an individual can be both pro-life and libertarian, but I’d be very Interested to hear how he would end up getting behind legal restrictions to abortion (for instance) while remaining consistent in his approach to libertarianism.
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Well, it’s not just possible. Around 30% of libertarians are pro-life. The very simplistic explanation comes down to a question of whether or not a fetus is a human being and whether it is afforded the same natural rights as another human being. The libertarian position isn’t that one can do whatever he chooses, but that (again, stated simplistically) one must not act with aggression upon another. My rights end at the point that they result in aggression on you.

If one answers yes to both (as I believe a Catholic should), then it would seem a libertarian would argue that ripping apart another human being would be an act of aggression against it.

Now, the argument is much more nuanced, and Randy examines both sides of the issue much deeper, concluding solidly that the libertarian position supports pro-life stronger than pro-choice. Someone who doesn’t feel a fetus is a human being or deserving of human rights until after birth may disagree, but that’s the problem with any social/political philosophy and abortion, isn’t it?

Remember that he isn’t advocating the Libertarian party, which comes down officially on the pro-choice side, but on a strong compatibility between Catholicism and libertarian beliefs. Just like the Republicans and Democrats, the party can take positions at odd with the core values that draw some people to their party, right?
 
That’s all fine and well.

What I’m asking about is his libertarian position as it relates to pro-choice legislative action ie governmental action to restrict abortion access. I’m asking about his philosophy not the position of the Libertarian Party.
 
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mrsdizzyd said:
That’s all fine and well.

What I’m asking about is his libertarian position as it relates to pro-choice legislative action ie governmental action to restrict abortion access. I’m asking about his philosophy not the position of the Libertarian Party.
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Right, which is why I spent three paragraphs explaining his position. And only one paragraph explaining the party’s position.

When I said he came down solidly on the pro-life stance over the pro-abortion stance, that was meant to imply he would support full restrictions on abortion, just as he would support restrictions on murder.
 
It definitely is a tricky field as some libertarians are Catholics but are for choice in the legal realm. It’s why I call myself a distributist when it comes to politics.
 
Tarsier said:
When I said he came down solidly on the pro-life stance over the pro-abortion stance, that was meant to imply he would support full restrictions on abortion, just as he would support restrictions on murder.
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This the part I don’t understand about prolife libertarians. Doesn’t a Catholic natural law argument undermine (at least in part) self-ownership?
 
mrsdizzyd said:
This the part I don’t understand about prolife libertarians. Doesn’t a Catholic natural law argument undermine (at least in part) self-ownership?
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How does self-ownership come into play here?
 
Actually in Feser’s article he addresses the self ownership thing that libertarians are always citing.
 
Tarsier said:
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mrsdizzyd:
This the part I don’t understand about prolife libertarians. Doesn’t a Catholic natural law argument undermine (at least in part) self-ownership?
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How does self-ownership come into play here?
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The Feser article linked above references the issues.

In short, the catholic pro-life position is one that is advanced from an Aristotelian-Thomistic natural law perspective. Feser argues that there is no way for AT to serve as a foundation for libertarianism. From Feser’s perspective, AT is not only incompatible with self-ownership, but several other thesis of Libertarianism.

I think his argument is persuasive.
 
I know, but I want to see how she applies it to this situation so I can respond.
 
mrsdizzyd said:
The Feser article linked above references the issues.

In short, the catholic pro-life position is one that is advanced from an Aristotelian-Thomistic natural law perspective. Feser argues that there is no way for AT to serve as a foundation for libertarianism. From Feser’s perspective, AT is not only incompatible with self-ownership, but several other thesis of Libertarianism.

I think his argument is persuasive.
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Please explain without directing me to read the article. Why?

From Feser: However, if a fetus is a human being or a person, then it is plausible to regard it also as a self-owner, in which case there may arguably be at least some instances in which the state is required to stop an abortion (since an abortion would, on this view, be a violation of the self-owning fetus’s right to life). Accordingly, while some libertarians are “pro-choice,” others are “pro-life”—the difference stemming from a disagreement over the moral status of the fetus.

More quotes in next post.
 
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More from Feser:
Feser said:
contrary to what so many libertarians (including my younger self) supposed, shouting “self-ownership” simply does not by itself suffice to rule out certain kinds of morals legislation.
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And:
Feser said:
A proper understanding of the fundamental libertarian principle of self-ownership might actually entail not just tolerance of conservative attitudes with regard to abortion and children, but enthusiastic endorsement of
those attitudes, and perhaps even the writing of them into law.
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I guess I’m struggling to find where Feser wrote what you are claiming specifically with regard to abortion. Could you quote it?
 
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