Greater love?

  • Thread starter Thread starter thinkandmull
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
T

thinkandmull

Guest
What does Catholic tradition say about wishing others more holiness than to oneself? Is it greater love to wish another to be a saint instead of oneself, or are we required to wish ourselves to receive that grace so we are the ones doing the will of God more perfectly? If God said to me “I will either give this grace to you or to another” would it be a sin to give it to another? THANKS
 
I’ve only heard this from the Litany of Humility:

O Jesus! meek and humble of heart, Hear me.
From the desire of being esteemed,
Deliver me, Jesus.
From the desire of being loved…
From the desire of being extolled …
From the desire of being honored …
From the desire of being praised …
From the desire of being preferred to others…
From the desire of being consulted …
From the desire of being approved …
From the fear of being humiliated …
From the fear of being despised…
From the fear of suffering rebukes …
From the fear of being calumniated …
From the fear of being forgotten …
From the fear of being ridiculed …
From the fear of being wronged …
From the fear of being suspected …

That others may be loved more than I,
Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.

That others may be esteemed more than I …
That, in the opinion of the world,
others may increase and I may decrease …
That others may be chosen and I set aside …
That others may be praised and I unnoticed …
That others may be preferred to me in everything…
**That others may become holier than I, provided that I may become as holy as I should…
**
 
thinkandmull said:
What does Catholic tradition say about wishing others more holiness than to oneself? Is it greater love to wish another to be a saint instead of oneself, or are we required to wish ourselves to receive that grace so we are the ones doing the will of God more perfectly? If God said to me “I will either give this grace to you or to another” would it be a sin to give it to another? THANKS
Click to expand...
If holiness means dedicated to God, I’d think you answer that it’s his gift to give to who he chooses.
 
thinkandmull said:
What does Catholic tradition say about wishing others more holiness than to oneself? Is it greater love to wish another to be a saint instead of oneself, or are we required to wish ourselves to receive that grace so we are the ones doing the will of God more perfectly? If God said to me “I will either give this grace to you or to another” would it be a sin to give it to another? THANKS
Click to expand...
No. To give some goodness to another is a grace in itself.

One could be in error but one never sins when earnestly discerning God’s will and conforming oneself to it.

God’s grace is infinite because He is infinite. Therefore, grace need not be portioned or allocated.

We believe that heaven has a hierarchy of holiness. But even those in the “last pew” will want for nothing as there is no envy in heaven. The opposite is true for hell.
 
I would say it depends on the motivation. If we are wishing others (in particular or in general) a higher degree of holiness than we wish for ourselves because we don’t have very high standards for ourselves, or because we don’t want to do what holiness requires…that seems rather disordered.

Desiring holiness for oneself doesn’t have to be selfish. We should in fact want it because it pleases God whom we love. It also benefits our neighbor. It is not very charitable to one’s neighbor, to want to be mediocre. We do them so much more good when we are holy.

According to St. Thomas Aquinas (S.T. IIb, Q. 26, a4):

Whether our of charity, man ought to love himself more than his neighbor?

…that man himself has a share of the Divine good, is a more potent reason for loving than that another should be a partner with him in that share. Therefore man, out of charity, ought to love himself more than his neighbor…

To put it in context a little, he gives the example that we may not sin in order to help another person even spiritually, because our own salvation comes first. He also says in the same section, sometimes we have to sacrifice our body for our neighbor; but never our soul.
 
It is more important that a person desire his own salvation than another, but the degree of holiness seems like a different issue. Good posts people! The Litany of Humility seems to settle that it is ok to tell God that we desire others to become holier than we are, but that in itself is a holy act of humility
 
If we are focused on ourselves and worried about our own salvation then we are not focused on loving others and their salvation. If Christianity is a self focused self help program then it is no different than any another self help program. There is already plenty of those around. Christianity is first about God’s unconditional love for us. It is the Holy Spirit that transforms us to be more like Christ. His love working in us. The problem begins when we think we have to be good enough and strive on our own to earn God’s love. God can not love us any more than He already does.

St. Paul himself says in the Scriptures that he wished he himself could be cut off so that his fellow Jews could be brought into salvation if that were possible. So I guess that shows St. Paul cared more about his fellow Jews salvation than his own. God however is just, and wouldn’t allow St. Paul to be damned.

Scripture says that God desires everyone to be saved. So it is not a question of convincing God to save anyone. God wanted those jews to be saved more than St. Paul or anyone else. Yet God does not force anyone to choose Him.
 
“Cut off from Christ” might not mean damnation, but cut off from His peace and feeling of presence. Otherwise Aquinas’s teaching presented earlier is violated
 
thinkandmull said:
What does Catholic tradition say about wishing others more holiness than to oneself? Is it greater love to wish another to be a saint instead of oneself, or are we required to wish ourselves to receive that grace so we are the ones doing the will of God more perfectly? If God said to me “I will either give this grace to you or to another” would it be a sin to give it to another? THANKS
Click to expand...
We should seek righteousness first, for ourselves. Then we will know what is good for others.

Don’t count your blessings upon grace. A man must make himself through his own choice. Things of grace do not magically fly into the human soul. It’s what we make of ourselves in relation to the Spirit that is a blessing. If you pray you will find yourself condemned. Man is not held up by the hand of God. Man stands upon his own two feet, seeking God. There is no supernatural power that is your friend and helping hand. Know this world that is before you. Adam was unworthy, that makes you unworthy too. A man must seek his worth by his own sense, his own doing.

Look, the Holy Spirit is hidden from you. The sacrifice is empty. What of the supernatural has it granted you? Is there supernatural peace within bread and wine? Adam is cut off from the Holy Spirit, he must make the Spirit for himself, within himself, by his own doing. Then he won’t be so empty. Just remember the sacrifice is empty because the Holy Spirit is hidden from you.
 
thinkandmull said:
What does Catholic tradition say about wishing others more holiness than to oneself? Is it greater love to wish another to be a saint instead of oneself, or are we required to wish ourselves to receive that grace so we are the ones doing the will of God more perfectly? If God said to me “I will either give this grace to you or to another” would it be a sin to give it to another? THANKS
Click to expand...
A couple of things:
Sanctification is not an individualist thing, it is unity with a community.
And God’s grace is not a zero sum thing, it is infinite as others have pointed out. God’s grace is infinitely abundant. It’s like a current.

By desiring it for others it is poured into me. When poured into me it pours out into others.

Also, wishing is not the same thing as desiring. Desire moves a person to action.
 
goout said:
A couple of things:
Sanctification is not an individualist thing, it is unity with a community.
And God’s grace is not a zero sum thing, it is infinite as others have pointed out. God’s grace is infinitely abundant. It’s like a current.

By desiring it for others it is poured into me. When poured into me it pours out into others.
…
Click to expand...
The special charismatic grace that enables one to work for the sanctification of others we call Holy Orders.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top