Grounds for annulment.

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ljc78

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Hi all, I am a new user to forums I hope I am posting under the right forums

I recently got engaged on New Years day, my new fiancée is legally separated and in the middle of a divorce. My question is concerning annulments and the grounds for it.

A brief history of her past:

In her first marriage she got married after 5 months of being with the guy (marriage performed by a Justice of the Peace), the reason being was that she got pregnant and was under pressure to “do the right” thing by her mother and the ex-husband. The ex-husband was full of lies and deceit, in particular about his financial situation. He also hid the fact that he was an alcoholic and a drug user from her, to which she found out within 6 months of being married. He was also abusive and very unfaithful. In her opinion he had no intentions of ever being faithful to her. The couple really only lived together for 6 months as the ex-husband would randomly disappear for weeks on end, at one point he left for a job for 10 months and during that time ended up living with another woman and supporting her children rather then his own.

I have prepared a rough document with timelines and events that I intend to take to the church to start the process but this will take some time and for my own peace of mind I was hoping I could get some general feedback here as to if this would be a case for annulment. Also any information that you could share with me to make the process go faster would be appreciated. If more details are needed I can provide them.

God Bless and thanks.
 
I must assume that you are both Catholic, thus the question about annulment. Now I have to ask…how on earth can you get engaged to someone who is still married?? No matter what the circumstances of your fiancee’s current marriage, you ought not be engaged at this point. She needs to get divorced and then get an annulment and then you get engaged. You are putting the cart before the horse I do believe.
~ Kathy ~
 
I see multiple grounds for an annulment here. The two most glaring are:

  1. *]If she was a practicing Catholic at the time, I do not believe the marriage is sacramentally valid since it was performed outside the Church.
    *]Duress due to being ‘under pressure to “do the right” thing by her mother and the ex-husband’.

    PF
 
You will need to call the diosese office and ask to speak with the annulment dept. Sounds to me like there should be no problem getting an annulment. I am no expert, but I agree with your fiances assesment of the guy–that he never intended to a sacramental marriage. As far as advice, I don’t have much to give you–the only people who can give you good advice are the people who have gone through this or are in the dept in the diocese.

Welcome to the forums. I for one don’t think you are jumping ahead. I think it is absolutlely fine to make a public declaration of your love for this women and do everything in your power to speed the things along to be in a sacramental marriage. Congrats to you and good luck. Are you going to try to legally adopt the child? I highly suggest looking into it after this annullment business is taken care of. --Rebecca
 
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beckyann2597:
I for one don’t think you are jumping ahead.
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You really do not think that there is anything wrong with becoming engaged to someone who is not even legally divorced yet?

Not only is she presumptively in a valid marriage but she is still legally married as well.
 
I will comment on the annulment: slam dunk (in my very unqualified to make those sort of decisons opinion. 😉 )

Best of luck to you.
CM
 
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beckyann2597:
You will need to call the diosese office and ask to speak with the annulment dept.
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no, your lady friend has to contact her pastor, who will listen to her story, determine if there is a reason to refer her to the diocesan tribunal, and assist her with the paperwork to get that going. you can do nothing.

you are not engaged, because this lady is still married.
 
My understanding is this “A divorce is a legal proceeding, but an engagement is only an emotional commitment with no legal bond”

The couple has not been together in over 9 years now, the ex husband has been engaged and rumored to have been remarried(I know the rammification of this). Only reason for lack of divorce so far has been the constant moving of the ex, and the cost to do it.

All we want is to be able to be together. Thanks for response.
 
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ljc78:
My understanding is this “A divorce is a legal proceeding, but an engagement is only an emotional commitment with no legal bond”

The couple has not been together in over 9 years now, the ex husband has been engaged and rumored to have been remarried(I know the rammification of this). Only reason for lack of divorce so far has been the constant moving of the ex, and the cost to do it.

All we want is to be able to be together. Thanks for response.
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This is not so much a legal issue as a moral one. You have become engaged to someone who is married. That is simply put not moral. Do you really not see a problem with dating and becoming engaged to someone who is married?

The Church may never grant a petition for nullity. What then?

The Church presumes all marriages to be valid and if between baptised persons sacramental. It must be proven otherwise. If she was Catholic at the time of the marriage and got married outside the Church without a dispensation then this can be a very short process. Otherwise a formal petition must be filed and ruled upon. This will take some time. This process can take as much as a couple of years, although 1 year to 18 months is more common in most places.
 
I actually did not come to this website to have my Morality questioned. I came seeking help because I am not aware of all the fine details, and for the most part all I am getting is ridicule so thanks for your time I will not visit this site again. In my closing thought …“Judge not, lest ye be judged”…because you do not know the circumstances.

God Bless.
 
Puzzleannie is correct that she will need to go to her priest as an initial step. He will be her sponsor/advocate if he senses there may be grounds. It sounds like there may be - but the process will take a bit of time.

But one of the very first questions he will ask is if you are engaged. The church frowns on this since she is still married in the eyes of the Church.

We are not judging you here - you posed a question, we are answering with accurate answers as painful as they may be. Your response appears to be defensive - and you bring in the actions of the husband (i.e. - he is engaged etc.) - however your spiritual well being does not hinge on him, but how you conduct yourself.

Love is great, but do not let your emotional state over ride your spiritual needs and the salvation of your loved one.
 
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Katie1723:
Now I have to ask…how on earth can you get engaged to someone who is still married?? No matter what the circumstances of your fiancee’s current marriage, you ought not be engaged at this point. She needs to get divorced and then get an annulment and then you get engaged. You are putting the cart before the horse I do believe.
~ Kathy ~
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This was my immediate thought to! The situation rings of adultery.

Once the woman is available (at least in the legal sense), consult a priest about her spiritual availability. While the church does not officially recognize many civil unions, I do not believe the Church will marry anyone who is in a legally married to another person.

I think you may be luck there, since her first marriage was only civil and not spiritual. The Church does not recognize civil unions unless she took the additional step of asking the church to bless the marriage.
 
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jrabs:
But one of the very first questions he will ask is if you are engaged. The church frowns on this since she is still married in the eyes of the Church.
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She is only married in the eyes of the church IF they recognized the first marriage, which may not be the case.
 
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JGheen:
She is only married in the eyes of the church IF they recognized the first marriage, which may not be the case.
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Yes - but she still needs to present all information to the priest and the tribunal for them to determine the marriage was in defect of form.
That is not for her to determine - that will be for the tribunal to determine. Until then, the priest will still frown upon an engagement without the proper determination not to mention she is still civilly married.
 
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jrabs:
Yes - but she still needs to present all information to the priest and the tribunal for them to determine the marriage was in defect of form.
That is not for her to determine - that will be for the tribunal to determine. Until then, the priest will still frown upon an engagement without the proper determination not to mention she is still civilly married.
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I don’t know if it would have to go to a tribunal, if the first marriage was outside the Church. But you are correct that is up to the Church to determine eligibility (i.e. the priest that would perform the ceremony), not the potential bride. You are also correct that the Church probably won’t marry someone already in a civil marriage.
 
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ljc78:
I actually did not come to this website to have my Morality questioned. I came seeking help because I am not aware of all the fine details, and for the most part all I am getting is ridicule so thanks for your time I will not visit this site again. In my closing thought …“Judge not, lest ye be judged”…because you do not know the circumstances.

God Bless.
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Sorry if you felt attacked by us.

Please understand that the “fine details” of the Church are rooted in its morality.
 
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ljc78:
I actually did not come to this website to have my Morality questioned. I came seeking help because I am not aware of all the fine details, and for the most part all I am getting is ridicule so thanks for your time I will not visit this site again. In my closing thought …“Judge not, lest ye be judged”…because you do not know the circumstances.

God Bless.
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I am not judging you. I am commenting on your actions. One can not morally be engaged to someone who is married. She is married both legally and in the eyes of the Church. I know enough of the circumstances. She is married.

If you think I do not understand you are very confused. I am divorced and going through the nullity process as I type this. I filed mine many months ago. I understand completely. It would be nice to be free to date or become engaged. My former spouse is re-married and has been for a year and a half. I understand completely. But you can not be engaged to someone who is married.
 
The annulment is actually a quickie one on the basis of defect of form…meaning she was Catholic and was not married in the church. Basically, she should have known better than to marry outside the church (not my opinion, it is the philosophy) so her marriage was not valid because it lacked the proper form (mass)
 
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BlestOne:
The annulment is actually a quickie one on the basis of defect of form…meaning she was Catholic and was not married in the church. Basically, she should have known better than to marry outside the church (not my opinion, it is the philosophy) so her marriage was not valid because it lacked the proper form (mass)
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Hi, just thought I’d mention you don’t need a Mass to have a valid marriage (though it is wonderful to have one)
 
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ljc78:
I have prepared a rough document with timelines and events that I intend to take to the church to start the process but this will take some time and for my own peace of mind I was hoping I could get some general feedback here as to if this would be a case for annulment. Also any information that you could share with me to make the process go faster would be appreciated. If more details are needed I can provide them.

God Bless and thanks.
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Why are you the one doing this? Is this something you can do? Doesn’t your fiance have to be the one that petitions?

Is she Catholic I think it would be a pretty simple “deefect of form” case. If not Catholic I don’t know but it sounds pretty good to me.
 
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