Guliani gave to planned parenthood

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It’s kind of like saying, *I hate pedophilia. I’m personally against pedophilia. But I gave money to NAMBLA because it’s a man’s personal choice whether or not to sodomize a child. * :dts:
 
Disgusting. Isn’t Guliani supposed to be a Catholic? If so, he should be excommunicated for supporting an organization that supports abortions.
 
Disgusting. Isn’t Guliani supposed to be a Catholic? If so, he should be excommunicated for supporting an organization that supports abortions.
There’s also the fact that he’s been divorced three times, and the relationship with his current wife was going on while he was still married to his second wife.

A paragon of virtue, he is not. I’m not saying that I’m perfect (because I am most emphatically not!), nor do I expect others to be perfect… but I don’t think it’s an unreasonable expectation for one who calls himself Catholic to at least attempt to live according to Catholic teaching.
 
There’s also the fact that he’s been divorced three times, and the relationship with his current wife was going on while he was still married to his second wife.

A paragon of virtue, he is not. I’m not saying that I’m perfect (because I am most emphatically not!), nor do I expect others to be perfect… but I don’t think it’s an unreasonable expectation for one who calls himself Catholic to at least attempt to live according to Catholic teaching.
I agree. I also am certainly not perfect. However, a practicing Catholic should not be doing the things that Guliani does.
 
Disgusting. Isn’t Guliani supposed to be a Catholic? If so, he should be excommunicated for supporting an organization that supports abortions.
Remember, we all support a government that supports abortion. Who has refused to pay taxes? Let he who withholds the fist dollar cast the fist stone.
 
Remember, we all support a government that supports abortion. Who has refused to pay taxes? Let he who withholds the fist dollar cast the fist stone.
Again, obviously flawed reasoning (But, you’ll never admit it). Taxes are not voluntary. They are collected, at the end of the barrel of a gun, in neccessary. “Give to Ceasar what is Ceasar’s”. Moral people vote and work to be represented in a way consistent with what is good and right. However, even Jesus said we should pay our taxes. The Romans did extremely evil things (as well as good things) with the support of the taxes they forcefully collected. Since Jesus said that the taxes should be paid anyways, what you suggest is immoral.

Voluntary contributions are, by definition, voluntary. I think we know what Jesus would say about voluntary contributions to an organization that promotes promiscuity, contraception, and killing of the innocents.

Sincerely, and reasonably,

Dan Grelinger
 
Again, obviously flawed reasoning (But, you’ll never admit it). Taxes are not voluntary. They are collected, at the end of the barrel of a gun, in neccessary. “Give to Ceasar what is Ceasar’s”. Moral people vote and work to be represented in a way consistent with what is good and right. However, even Jesus said we should pay our taxes. The Romans did extremely evil things (as well as good things) with the support of the taxes they forcefully collected. Since Jesus said that the taxes should be paid anyways, what you suggest is immoral.

Voluntary contributions are, by definition, voluntary. I think we know what Jesus would say about voluntary contributions to an organization that promotes promiscuity, contraception, and killing of the innocents.

Sincerely, and reasonably,

Dan Grelinger
It’s very simple. People would rather stay out of jail and contribute to the support of abortion than go to jail and not contribute. Makes sense to me. But they shouldn’t fool themselves about what they are doing.
 
It’s very simple. People would rather stay out of jail and contribute to the support of abortion than go to jail and not contribute. Makes sense to me. But they shouldn’t fool themselves about what they are doing.
Completely ignoring the differences between material and formal cooperation, as well as mediate and immediate material cooperation.

I always thought you recognized nuance. I didn’t realize you were such a blind dogmatist. :rolleyes:

God Bless,
RyanL
 
Completely ignoring the differences between material and formal cooperation, as well as mediate and immediate material cooperation.

I always thought you recognized nuance. I didn’t realize you were such a blind dogmatist. :rolleyes:

God Bless,
RyanL
I thought I’d give GreenJeans another chance. I actually saw some evidence of congnitive thought on a series of posts yesterday. I knew there would be no admission of error! :rolleyes: That’s part of the pattern.

Ryan, I disagree with the dogmatist part. So clearly ignoring Jesus’ teaching would not be the mark of dogmatist.

Dan
 
Completely ignoring the differences between material and formal cooperation, as well as mediate and immediate material cooperation.

I always thought you recognized nuance. I didn’t realize you were such a blind dogmatist. :rolleyes:

God Bless,
RyanL
Money is money. Pay money to an organization that supports abortion and they use it to support abortion. Planned Parenthood does it. The government does it.

I completely understand that people would choose to contribute to abortion support to save their own skins.
 
I thought I’d give GreenJeans another chance. I actually saw some evidence of congnitive thought on a series of posts yesterday. I knew there would be no admission of error! :rolleyes: That’s part of the pattern.

Ryan, I disagree with the dogmatist part. So clearly ignoring Jesus’ teaching would not be the mark of dogmatist.

Dan
Oh, come on. You have kept us in suspense too long. What’s the pattern?
 
There’s also the fact that he’s been divorced three times, and the relationship with his current wife was going on while he was still married to his second wife.
His first marriage was declared null by a Church tribunal. He had married his second cousin without the necessary dispensation for it (in today’s canon law, a dispensation is not necessary, but it was back then). He claims that he did not know she was his second cousin when he married her.

I don’t know if his second marriage was declared null but there’s no indication that it was on wikipedia’s biography of him (it says “divorced” whereas for the first it says “divorced/annulled” He mentioned his “confessor” in response to a question about abortion and the pope. I wonder what his confessor is telling him about his current (presumably) irregular marriage situation. Maybe, he doesn’t receive Holy Communion. Or, maybe his situation was resolved in the so-caled “internal forum” (I know that resolving it so in confession is controversial among “conservative” Catholics)
A paragon of virtue, he is not. I’m not saying that I’m perfect (because I am most emphatically not!), nor do I expect others to be perfect… but I don’t think it’s an unreasonable expectation for one who calls himself Catholic to at least attempt to live according to Catholic teaching.
I believe a national leader ought be virtuous so that he can lead the citizens to greater virtue. But the media and members of society seem to care more about the accumulation of material wealth.

But the fact that he gave to Planned Parenthood doesn’t show that he is not virtuous since, for one thing, the article says he gave to Planned Parenthood in the “90’s” – so it was a long time ago. He may have repented of his past contributions. We shouldn’t assume that he didn’t. Maybe he’ll be asked about it by a reporter.
 
But the fact that he gave to Planned Parenthood doesn’t show that he is not virtuous since, for one thing, the article says he gave to Planned Parenthood in the “90’s” – so it was a long time ago. He may have repented of his past contributions. We shouldn’t assume that he didn’t. Maybe he’ll be asked about it by a reporter.
Rudy is a pro-choice Republican. In the Republican debates last week he clearly stated that when the question was posed. He hasn’t repented or changed his stance. Whether he is still giving to planned parenthood is irrelevant, in my opinion. What he stands for, in this case a woman’s right to choose, is the concern/issue. I haven’t heard him speak at length about it, but that is clearly his position on the issue.

A quick side note: isn’t John McCain also a little “soft” on abortion and embryonic stem-cell research? I’m not 100% sure about this…
 
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