Habits vs. No Habits

[Ocarm]

Wasn’t the point for the reform was to return to the origianl spirit of carmel? I am not sure. carmel became quite lax in teresa’s day…am I wrong

Your question is, oddly enough, actually quite a complex one - Carmelite houses in some parts of Europe had certainly become lax in the 15th-16th centuries, and local reforms had taken place to address this. Things were particularly bad amongst the nuns in Spain during Teresa’s first years in the monastery, and this was a major factor in the Discalced reform.

However, the Carmelites of the 16th century ironically knew even less than we do now about the early years of the order, which were already more than 350 years in the past, and which, as I said above, remain rather obscure to us because of a lack of good records from those early days. (We’ve uncovered more since her time, but there are still many gaps).

Teresa’s reform was less of a return to the original spirit per se, and more of a move towards what Teresa and her allies thought the original spirit had been; so what she was in fact doing was taking the basic elements of Carmelite spirituality (those historical details which were known, plus the rule, and the relatively few extant major writings); and, crucially, ‘repackaging’ them in the light of her own innovations and her mystical insights.

The success of her reform shows how much in tune she was with divine providence (!) but it was not truly a back-to-basics reform but instead a new direction for the charism, married to a healthy dose of asceticism. (My Franciscan friends claim that the fact that Peter of Alcantara was one of Teresa’s spiritual directors may indicate that she was borrowing from another great mendicant tradition, and they are likely correct!).

In this respect Teresa’s efforts show us that each viable charism has to be reinterpreted for the age in which we live, and that although the fundamental elements of that charism will remain constant, it takes some particular and appropriate aspects of each reform to appeal to a contemporary audience. In her case this was by default, because a lot of information was unavailable to her, but we still see this kind of process going on today, and perhaps more self-consciously - Mother Teresa repackaged Ignatian spirituality (with some other borrowings) and gave it a unique twist for the late 20th century, the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal have in recent decades presented a perspective on Franciscan spirituality that was both old and new, the Ann Arbor Dominicans are finding an innovative slant on another ancient tradition, and so on. Of course the Holy Spirit is the main agent in these events, but works through the co-operation of the people involved in each successful reform.

People are quick to point out how institutes that are successful in the modern age often begin with a well-established model; but there isn’t always an acknowledgement of the skill and appropriateness they employ in finding a means to re-present it to a new audience. Great ideas never go away, and are usually re-discovered; but I think we underestimate the intelligence and inspiration by which they are given again to the church. This is what Teresa did, and she was neither the first nor the last; and her sisters have themselves engaged with similar processes at intervals in the intervening 400+ years.

All my opinions; other people’s may vary. Best wishes.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Wasn’t the point for the reform was to return to the origianl spirit of carmel? I am not sure. carmel became quite lax in teresa’s day…am I wrong?

What Br Mike said above but…

Normally I agree with you Shoshana but I have to say your comment is very judgemental.

As if you can determine all about a monastery based solely on the cliths they wear.

You must keep in mind that both sets of Constitutions are approved by Rome and Rome went an extra step to allow two sets of Constitutions with each monastery of nuns able to pick the one they wish.

 

[Shoshana]

Your question is, oddly enough, actually quite a complex one - Carmelite houses in some parts of Europe had certainly become lax in the 15th-16th centuries, and local reforms had taken place to address this. Things were particularly bad amongst the nuns in Spain during Teresa’s first years in the monastery, and this was a major factor in the Discalced reform.

However, the Carmelites of the 16th century ironically knew even less than we do now about the early years of the order, which were already more than 350 years in the past, and which, as I said above, remain rather obscure to us because of a lack of good records from those early days. (We’ve uncovered more since her time, but there are still many gaps).

Teresa’s reform was less of a return to the original spirit per se, and more of a move towards what Teresa and her allies thought the original spirit had been; so what she was in fact doing was taking the basic elements of Carmelite spirituality (those historical details which were known, plus the rule, and the relatively few extant major writings); and, crucially, ‘repackaging’ them in the light of her own innovations and her mystical insights.

The success of her reform shows how much in tune she was with divine providence (!) but it was not truly a back-to-basics reform but instead a new direction for the charism, married to a healthy dose of asceticism. (My Franciscan friends claim that the fact that Peter of Alcantara was one of Teresa’s spiritual directors may indicate that she was borrowing from another great mendicant tradition, and they are likely correct!).

In this respect Teresa’s efforts show us that each viable charism has to be reinterpreted for the age in which we live, and that although the fundamental elements of that charism will remain constant, it takes some particular and appropriate aspects of each reform to appeal to a contemporary audience. In her case this was by default, because a lot of information was unavailable to her, but we still see this kind of process going on today, and perhaps more self-consciously - Mother Teresa repackaged Ignatian spirituality (with some other borrowings) and gave it a unique twist for the late 20th century, the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal have in recent decades presented a perspective on Franciscan spirituality that was both old and new, the Ann Arbor Dominicans are finding an innovative slant on another ancient tradition, and so on. Of course the Holy Spirit is the main agent in these events, but works through the co-operation of the people involved in each successful reform.

People are quick to point out how institutes that are successful in the modern age often begin with a well-established model; but there isn’t always an acknowledgement of the skill and appropriateness they employ in finding a means to re-present it to a new audience. Great ideas never go away, and are usually re-discovered; but I think we underestimate the intelligence and inspiration by which they are given again to the church. This is what Teresa did, and she was neither the first nor the last; and her sisters have themselves engaged with similar processes at intervals in the intervening 400+ years.

All my opinions; other people’s may vary. Best wishes.

Thank you so, so much…this makes much sense to me. I truly could not understand this part at all. Again, you come ot the rescue! God bless!

 

[Shoshana]

What Br Mike said above but…

Normally I agree with you Shoshana but I have to say your comment is very judgemental.

As if you can determine all about a monastery based solely on the cliths they wear.

You must keep in mind that both sets of Constitutions are approved by Rome and Rome went an extra step to allow two sets of Constitutions with each monastery of nuns able to pick the one they wish.

You misunderstand what I was trying to say, Bro. I’ll chalk that up to my french. I wasn’t really speaking about habits at the last post you responded. I was talking of the reform of the carmelite order. when st teresa came around and she formed another branch of the carmelites, I was always confused because it seemed that she reformed back to the ancient observance (which is the title of the O’carms)…and ancient observance meant to me like elijah, etc living in caves and always fasting, etc.
But I was wrong, so forgive me. I do understand now.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

You misunderstand what I was trying to say, Bro. I’ll chalk that up to my french. I wasn’t really speaking about habits at the last post you responded. I was talking of the reform of the carmelite order. when st teresa came around and she formed another branch of the carmelites, I was always confused because it seemed that she reformed back to the ancient observance (which is the title of the O’carms)…and ancient observance meant to me like elijah, etc living in caves and always fasting, etc.
But I was wrong, so forgive me. I do understand now.

Sorry about the misunderstanding.

St Teresa took the earliest Rule that she could find, she and her followers thought this was the primitive Rule as given by St Albert but it was not, it was the first mitigation by Pope Innocent in 1247. The Rule that the Convent of the Incranation was using was the Rule as mitigated by Pope Eugene in 1432.

While we trace our roots to Elijah it is more of a spiritual thing than a physical thing.

I know that the O.Carm. are sometimes called the Carmelites of Ancient Observance, or even just the Order of Carmel, but our real name (which is found in our documents) is the Order of the Brothers of the Blessed Virgin Mary of Mount Carmel.

We, O.Carm, have had several reforms within our Order that have stayed within the Order and have been absorbed by the Order as a whole, some more successful than others. The last was the Touraine reform and this shares some of the reforming ideas that St Teresa had.

I have heard it said by some historians within the Order that the original Carmelties no longer exist, what we have today are Carmelites of the Teresian reform and Carmelites of the Touraine reform.

 

[JReducation]

Now you guys are crossing over into my dissertation.

As Br. Mike pointed out, St. Teresa of Avila was moved to recover the ancient Carmelite way of life, but she did not have the tools that we have today. She had very little to go on, mostly oral tradition and hagiography.

It is important to understand that it was not her intention to duplicate the living conditions of the early hermits of Mt. Carmel. She had no way of knowing with certitude what that looked like. She knew what hermits were. She knew all about poverty and penance. In short, what she understands is that there is a need to get back to the life of quiet, solitude, contemplation, penance and poverty.

Unlike the Franciscans, who have a real live patriarch and matriarch (Clare and Francis) and we have their writings and those of their contemporaries, the Carmelites do not have the writings of Elijah and the ancient hermits. You can’t duplicate what you can’t see.

Teresa, being a very intelligent woman, was not out to do that. She sets out to recover a form of asceticism that is conducive to a life of prayer.

Her first inspiration comes not from a Carmelite spiritual masters, but from a Franciscan. She read the Third Spiritual Alphabet by Francisco de Osuna, a friar of the Franciscan Recollects and a mystic. Osuna maps out the life of recollection. Teresa, who is a smart cookie, realizes that this map works for the Carmelites and that it’s helpful, because recollection is the essence of the Carmelite vocation.

At some point, she was going to run into Friar Peter of Alcantara. Peter was an Alcantarine Franciscan. They were very well known for their strict observance of poverty, another map. Again, Teresa, who is wise girl, is not about to pass up a good map.

What has to be understood is that she’s not out to become a Franciscan nor were these friars out to turn her into a Poor Clare. This is very clear. The Carmelite nuns are much more distant from the secular world than are Poor Clares and their life of silence and solitude is much more intense than that of a Poor Clare. The focus of the two orders is very different.

That being said, the Franciscan maps were very helpful for Teresa. She uses these maps to guide these Carmelites, but her goal is to recover the life of contemplation. Poverty and asceticism are a means to contemplation, whereas in the Franciscan map, contemplation supports the journey toward the perfection of poverty.

We have to be careful, Franciscan and Teresian detachment are very similar and at the same time very different. The different Franciscan reforms have a different purpose from the Teresian reform. The Franciscan reforms, even those of today, are a concerted effort to go back to the 13th century. That was not the Teresian reform. She was not trying to go back to Pre-Christian Palestine. He was trying to preserve the spirit of prayer of the early hermits of Mt. Carmel, given the tools that she had; but the day to day life of the Carmelites was very contemporary.

For example, Br. Mike mentioned the Franciscans of the Renewal. They are the most famous Franciscan reform today, probably because they have had the exposure offered by EWTN. That’s fine. If one observes how the Friars of the Renewal and other reformation Franciscans live, the reform is a physical reform. There is no TV, no telephone, no car, no internet, no beds, no parishes, no clerical control. Teresa did not send her nuns and friars to live on a mountain. She preserved the conventual infrastructure, which Franciscans today are realizing is not the paradigm of the 13th century Franciscans and does not work for Franciscans, because it turns us into Carmelites… Teresa had no problem with the infrastructure of her time. Priories and monasteries were fine with her, because this infrastructure facilitated the life of silence and solitude that is conducive to prayer.

Finally, the habit was the last thing on her mind. The Discalced habit and the O’Carm habit differs so slightly that unless you really know what to look for, you don’t see the difference. When she writes about the habit, one notices that she spends a lot of time on poverty.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Poor_Clare_tobe]

Thank you Sister. Before I continue with the post, please tell our sisters that their brothers will be keeping them in our prayers tomorrow night at the Transitus and on Tuesday at the mass for the Solemnity of our Holy Father.

Blessings to you and your community Brother. I did not read your post until this afternoon (as I may have mentioned before my computer time is of necessity limited) You and your community are always in our prayers and I pray for you daily.
May you have a wonderful feast day!!!

I’d like to take advantage of Sister’s presence to highlight another difference, which is more profound than a habit or a suit. That is the different degrees of religious consecration. Sister and I belong to the same religious family. We’re both Franciscans. However, Sister is a monastic and I’m a mendicant. Even though we belong to the same family, our lives are very different. We are inspired by the same parents, Francis and Clare. Yet, the Holy Spirit called us to different degrees of or different intensities of consecration.

Sister’s life is totally centered on Christ’s presence, without mediation through human contact. As a nun, she is called to live the mystery of the Incarnation by becoming one with the Incarnate Christ, not through service to others, but in silence and solitude. Christ chooses to make her part of his incarnate life without the need of going through others.

I, on the other hand, am called to enter into the mystery of the Incarnation through a life of brotherhood and service. While the Incarnate Christ makes himself present in Sister’s life at those moments when she is silent and alone, in my case, he makes himself present in those moments when my life touches the life of another.

The Church recognizes the profession of our vows as a solemn profession of the Evangelical Counsels, instead of a simple profession. However, the Church also acknowledges Sister’s way of life as far superior to mine. She achieves holiness and sanctifies the world through unmediated intimacy with Christ. I cannot do that. However, God in his mercy does not allow me to be lost. He provides a way of life for me that allows me to meet him in service and brotherhood, because that is better for me and is easier for me.

The mystery of religious life goes far deeper than the habit. We have Poor Clares that do not wear a habit. Some wear a modified habit. Others wear the classical habit and others, such as Mother Angelica wear an intermediate version of the original Franciscan habit. However, what does not change is the degree of consecration of these women and their intimacy with the Incarnate Christ in silence and solitude. For us, that’s the most important part.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Now you guys are crossing over into my dissertation.

*** How are your studies going brother??? and how is your health???

Blessings of Peace in our Father Francis!
Sr Debbie O.S.C.***

 

[JReducation]

*** How are your studies going brother??? and how is your health???

Blessings of Peace in our Father Francis!
Sr Debbie O.S.C.***

Hi Sister:

I’m just sitting down after a nice vespers and a nice Italian meal. One of the brothers thought it would be great to have an Italian meal in honor of our Holy Father. He makes delicious meat sauce. Of course, I did not tell him that Francis never ate pasta, because Marco Polo was born 100 years after him. The Italians had not seen pasta until then. Shhhhh

My studies are going slowly. I’ve been in and out of bed all month. That’s OK. I just have to learn to trust God.

I hope the sisters had a beautiful day. Please tell them how grateful I am for their prayers and how much I enjoy the thought of knowing that they remember me in their prayers. I remembered them at Holy Communion today.

Tell our sisters one more thing for me. Tell them that I am very proud and humbled to be part of the same family.

Your little brother in Francis and Clare,

Jason Richard (aka. Br. JR)

 

[TiggerS]

Daily prayer from me also, Brother. I read a post about your health awhile back now.

Tigger

 

[Shoshana]

Prayers fo ryour health Bro…btw, are you somekind of genius? Intelligent does not give you justice at all…it is always a pleasure to read you but I am so flabbergasted at the length and depth of your knowledge about anything in the faith. Now, would St Francis approve of this knowledge? He, I belive, at first did not want educated friars. Is my memory right? I know it changed, because in his lifetime, already, there were scholarly firars…st bernard? or is he later?

No matter, God bless! Praise be Jesus Christ!

 

[MontChevalier]

Now you guys are crossing over into my dissertation.

As Br. Mike pointed out, St. Teresa of Avila was moved to recover the ancient Carmelite way of life, but she did not have the tools that we have today. She had very little to go on, mostly oral tradition and hagiography.

It is important to understand that it was not her intention to duplicate the living conditions of the early hermits of Mt. Carmel. She had no way of knowing with certitude what that looked like. She knew what hermits were. She knew all about poverty and penance. In short, what she understands is that there is a need to get back to the life of quiet, solitude, contemplation, penance and poverty.

Unlike the Franciscans, who have a real live patriarch and matriarch (Clare and Francis) and we have their writings and those of their contemporaries, the Carmelites do not have the writings of Elijah and the ancient hermits. You can’t duplicate what you can’t see.

Teresa, being a very intelligent woman, was not out to do that. She sets out to recover a form of asceticism that is conducive to a life of prayer.

Her first inspiration comes not from a Carmelite spiritual masters, but from a Franciscan. She read the Third Spiritual Alphabet by Francisco de Osuna, a friar of the Franciscan Recollects and a mystic. Osuna maps out the life of recollection. Teresa, who is a smart cookie, realizes that this map works for the Carmelites and that it’s helpful, because recollection is the essence of the Carmelite vocation.

At some point, she was going to run into Friar Peter of Alcantara. Peter was an Alcantarine Franciscan. They were very well known for their strict observance of poverty, another map. Again, Teresa, who is wise girl, is not about to pass up a good map.

What has to be understood is that she’s not out to become a Franciscan nor were these friars out to turn her into a Poor Clare. This is very clear. The Carmelite nuns are much more distant from the secular world than are Poor Clares and their life of silence and solitude is much more intense than that of a Poor Clare. The focus of the two orders is very different.

That being said, the Franciscan maps were very helpful for Teresa. She uses these maps to guide these Carmelites, but her goal is to recover the life of contemplation. Poverty and asceticism are a means to contemplation, whereas in the Franciscan map, contemplation supports the journey toward the perfection of poverty.

We have to be careful, Franciscan and Teresian detachment are very similar and at the same time very different. The different Franciscan reforms have a different purpose from the Teresian reform. The Franciscan reforms, even those of today, are a concerted effort to go back to the 13th century. That was not the Teresian reform. She was not trying to go back to Pre-Christian Palestine. He was trying to preserve the spirit of prayer of the early hermits of Mt. Carmel, given the tools that she had; but the day to day life of the Carmelites was very contemporary.

For example, Br. Mike mentioned the Franciscans of the Renewal. They are the most famous Franciscan reform today, probably because they have had the exposure offered by EWTN. That’s fine. If one observes how the Friars of the Renewal and other reformation Franciscans live, the reform is a physical reform. There is no TV, no telephone, no car, no internet, no beds, no parishes, no clerical control. Teresa did not send her nuns and friars to live on a mountain. She preserved the conventual infrastructure, which Franciscans today are realizing is not the paradigm of the 13th century Franciscans and does not work for Franciscans, because it turns us into Carmelites… Teresa had no problem with the infrastructure of her time. Priories and monasteries were fine with her, because this infrastructure facilitated the life of silence and solitude that is conducive to prayer.

Finally, the habit was the last thing on her mind. The Discalced habit and the O’Carm habit differs so slightly that unless you really know what to look for, you don’t see the difference. When she writes about the habit, one notices that she spends a lot of time on poverty.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

You’ll be in my prayers aswell Brother.
I’m sorry about your health issues.

Please enjoy the hymns below if you can.
I loved them.

-MontChevalier

 

[JReducation]

Prayers fo ryour health Bro…btw, are you somekind of genius? Intelligent does not give you justice at all…it is always a pleasure to read you but I am so flabbergasted at the length and depth of your knowledge about anything in the faith. Now, would St Francis approve of this knowledge? He, I belive, at first did not want educated friars. Is my memory right? I know it changed, because in his lifetime, already, there were scholarly firars…st bernard? or is he later?

No matter, God bless! Praise be Jesus Christ!

Our Holy Father was very suspiscious of scholars. However, once he heard of Brother Anthony of Lisbon’s (Anthony of Padua) reputation for holiness and humility, he softened and we have since been a force in the world of academics. He co-founded Oxford with the Carmelites and Dominicans, we taught at the U. of Paris where St. Bonaventure and St. Thomas Aquinas co-chaired the theology faculty. We founded and still run the Seraphic Pontifical College of Theology, the Pontifical University of Salamanca, the Pontifical University of St. Bonaventure in Colombia, three universities in the USA and we teach at other colleges and universities around the world. We have 5 or 7 doctors. Our non-clerical brothers are probably among the most educated non-clerical friars. Unlike the other mendicants, our non-clerical brothers may not be denied permission to study theology, because they are on equal footing with the friar priests. Many of them have Master’s degrees in Divinity, Theology, Arts and Sciences. One of our non-clerical brothers is a physician and a theologian and was recently appointed to the President’s ethics committe, at the chagrin of the pro-choice people on that committee. Another non-clerical brother is the Vicar General of the Capuchin Franciscan Friars and he’s a scholar in Scripture. The current papal theologian is a Capuchin Franciscan Friar. There has been a long rule in the Vatican that the official preacher and confessor to the papal household must be a Capuchin Franciscan Friar. He’s always chosen from among the scolars of the order…

If you want to meet some very intelligent Franciscans and highly educated, you need to look at Fr. Benedict G, Fr. Andrew Apostoli, Archbishop Charles Chaput, Sean Cardinal O’Malley, Br. Daniel Sulmasy, and Archbishop Roberto Gonzalez

We just look dumb.

uchospitals.edu/physicians/daniel-sulmasy.html

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Shoshana]

Our Holy Father was very suspiscious of scholars. However, once he heard of Brother Anthony of Lisbon’s (Anthony of Padua) reputation for holiness and humility, he softened and we have since been a force in the world of academics. He co-founded Oxford with the Carmelites and Dominicans, we taught at the U. of Paris where St. Bonaventure and St. Thomas Aquinas co-chaired the theology faculty. We founded and still run the Seraphic Pontifical College of Theology, the Pontifical University of Salamanca, the Pontifical University of St. Bonaventure in Colombia, three universities in the USA and we teach at other colleges and universities around the world. We have 5 or 7 doctors. Our non-clerical brothers are probably among the most educated non-clerical friars. Unlike the other mendicants, our non-clerical brothers may not be denied permission to study theology, because they are on equal footing with the friar priests. Many of them have Master’s degrees in Divinity, Theology, Arts and Sciences. One of our non-clerical brothers is a physician and a theologian and was recently appointed to the President’s ethics committe, at the chagrin of the pro-choice people on that committee. Another non-clerical brother is the Vicar General of the Capuchin Franciscan Friars and he’s a scholar in Scripture. The current papal theologian is a Capuchin Franciscan Friar. There has been a long rule in the Vatican that the official preacher and confessor to the papal household must be a Capuchin Franciscan Friar. He’s always chosen from among the scolars of the order…

If you want to meet some very intelligent Franciscans and highly educated, you need to look at Fr. Benedict G, Fr. Andrew Apostoli, Archbishop Charles Chaput, Sean Cardinal O’Malley, Br. Daniel Sulmasy, and Archbishop Roberto Gonzalez

We just look dumb.

uchospitals.edu/physicians/daniel-sulmasy.html

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

I take ‘we’ for ‘me’, my dear! Yes, i was raised by franciscans in my home parish (french). Met very wonderful franciscans in the holy Land that KNEW the priests in my home parish…small world! thank you Bro…

Btw, went to a conference with Fr Groeschel…love him! He doesn’t keep his tongue in his pocket! Talk about orthodoxy!

 

[JReducation]

I take ‘we’ for ‘me’, my dear! Yes, i was raised by franciscans in my home parish (french). Met very wonderful franciscans in the holy Land that KNEW the priests in my home parish…small world! thank you Bro…

Btw, went to a conference with Fr Groeschel…love him! He doesn’t keep his tongue in his pocket! Talk about orthodoxy!

No he does not. Go to Brother Daniel’s blog. He’s another who does not keep his tongue in his lab coat. He’s a physician, philosopher, theologian and friar. He’s favorite area is euthanasia. He rakes the medical community over the coals.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Shoshana]

No he does not. Go to Brother Daniel’s blog. He’s another who does not keep his tongue in his lab coat. He’s a physician, philosopher, theologian and friar. He’s favorite area is euthanasia. He rakes the medical community over the coals.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

At that conference, Fr Groeschel must have called liberal (for lack of a better term) STUPED! At least 9 times! Hilarious! My spiritual director was a confessor at that conference and had first seat basis…which I enjoyed since I was with him! I LOVE FATHER GROESCHEL AND ALL OF HIS BOOKS! (He is one of my heroes…)

 

[Christopher_S_1]

As the founder of a new order in Los Angeles (The Brothers of Padre Pio) I started out wearing a black shirt and crucifix. Since part of our mission is to promote prayer we give away rosaries, holy cards Etc. When I approached people they backed off like I was some born again Christian who wanted to bore them with a story. As I began to realize I need some kind of sign I was a religious I decided I needed a habit. The habit made all the difference. One day that will always stand out as proof the habit makes a difference is when I was praying one day in church and a very troubled young man ask if he could talk to me. He was considering suicide. Had I not had that habit on who would he have talked to. We are representives of Christ and we must dress the part in order to bring Christ to the people.
I have accomplished more with a habit then without. Yes its unconfortable but it works.
God bless,
Br. Christopher Sale B.P.P.