Hail Mary instructions

[wonderingCatholic]

My grandfather always used to say Hail Mary the lord is with you, instead of thee. Ever since his passing I have done it as a way to remember him. Upon further mediation, I see those were the actual words of Gabriel. Does anyone else say it this way? I believe both are acceptable.

 

[Cecilia2017]

I’m sure both are acceptable. I’ve heard both at our cathedral. If you think about it, the angel would be more likely to have used ancient Aramaic than English anyway…and what about all those languages that don’t have a ‘Thee’?

 

[Soubirous1]

both are accepted as the meaning doesn’t change

 

[Stephen_says]

I think older English translations of the bible used “Thee”, “Thou”, etc, but newer translations just use “You” for everything because those other pronouns fell out of style.

 

[OddBird]

Ancient Greek doesn’t know the distinction between “you” and “thou”, so both are acceptable ways to render Luke’s text (Lk 1:28).

Interestingly, my own first language, French, makes the distinction between “tu” (casual) and “vous” (formal). While “tu” has long been adopted for the Our Father, we still say “vous” when praying the Hail Mary.

 

[wonderingCatholic]

I was just checking, when I say group rosaries with people I can see everyone change their look when I lead because it’s new I guess.

 

[TheLittleLady]

The actual words were likely in Aramaic, so, any way we say it is a translation.

I am a Thee Thou person.

 

[Crocus]

Ancient Greek doesn’t know the distinction between “you” and “thou”, so both are acceptable ways to render Luke’s text (Lk 1:28).

Interestingly, my own first language, French, makes the distinction between “tu” (casual) and “vous” (formal). While “tu” has long been adopted for the Our Father, we still say “vous” when praying the Hail Mary.

Interesting. The intimate address (tu) for the Father, given to us by the Son. The honour and respect addressed (vous) to the Mother of our Lord, modelled for us by an Angel. Thank you for that source for meditation.

 

[vsedriver]

I was just checking, when I say group rosaries with people I can see everyone change their look when I lead because it’s new I guess.

Thee and Thou are Old English like Elizabethan/Shakespearian English. Most people use their own common vernacular when saying prayers. Thee and Thou are no longer common and that is why people get surprised to hear it spoken.

 

[wonderingCatholic]

Okay, thank you for saying that. I just try to remember if I’m trying to do it the right way then I think that’s all that matters.

 

[Sursumcorda1]

My brain is funny when I recite familiar prayers. If I switch or hear “you” in the Hail Mary instead of “thou”, I am often derailed and have to start over. I consider it my problem so if you encounter other “thee/thou” people, don’t worry about us. Also, I noticed that if I mouth the words of the Hail Mary, the prayer goes smoothly, but if I just think the prayer without mouthing it, the prayer goes much slower. Neurological thing…

 

[wonderingCatholic]

Yeah it’s funny, I have a brain injury so it’s hard to picture the words before I say them. When I start praying the words just come out. Also I feel God wants you to speak his prayers, not just internalize them.

 

[porthos11]

Ancient Greek doesn’t know the distinction between “you” and “thou”, so both are acceptable ways to render Luke’s text (Lk 1:28).

Interestingly, my own first language, French, makes the distinction between “tu” (casual) and “vous” (formal). While “tu” has long been adopted for the Our Father, we still say “vous” when praying the Hail Mary.

Actually, Greek does, and Early Modern English did as well. “Thou” is second person singular. “You” is second person plural. “Thou” was the appropriate Early Modern English translation of the Greek “su” (second person pronoun singular) because the angel was addressing only one individual.

This distinction has disappeared in Modern English. “You” is now both singular and plural.

Thee/thou vs you/you has nothing to do with levels of respect. It’s completely a question of number, i.e. singular vs. plural. I find the loss of thee/thou damaging in some respect to the language because they lent a degree of clarity, whereas now we often have to let context determine the meaning.

 

[tafan2]

I doubt either “you” or “thee” were used by Gabriel. Mary just wasn’t that fluent in English.

 

[OddBird]

Actually, Greek does

I probably wasn’t clear, sorry. Greek, to the best of my knowledge, never uses “ὑμεῖς” (2nd person plural) to address one single person, but “σύ” (2nd person singular).

Thee/thou vs you/you has nothing to do with levels of respect.

Interesting, thank you. Not the same as in French, then !