Handlng of Jesus before His Ascension

[CClody]

I have a question regarding the ‘handling’ of Jesus after His resurrection and before His ascension. When Mary went to the tomb and found it empty and was asking Who she first assumed was a gardener (nice play on words!) where they have taken the Lord’s body so she may retrieve it. With the reply of ‘Mary’, she knew it was her Teacher. Mary went to embrace her Lord and Jesus said, "Do not touch me, for I am not yet ascended to my Father. But go to my brethren, and say to them: I ascend to my Father and to your Father, to my God and your God. " John 20:17 Thomas encounters Jesus (Still before His ascension) and says, “Put in thy finger hither, and see my hands; and bring hither thy hand, and put it into my side; and be not faithless, but believing.” Jon 20:27 Can you help me understand first why Mary should not handle Jesus yet Thomas could before the Ascension? Secondly, was this in regard to Jewish purity towards touching the ‘dead’? Ad Jesum per Mariam, Chris

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I’ve read two interpretations based on Catholic Bible footnotes. Neither of them mention Jewish prohibitions on “touching the dead.”

First, Haydock interprets it this way:

The meaning of which words seems to be: I am not yet leaving thee, nor ascending to the Father, so that thou mayest have time enough to embrace my feet afterwards; now go to my disciples,

In other words, Jesus is saying, “We’ll have time for you to give me a hug and stuff later, but right now, go to my disciples and give them the news of my resurrection.”

On the other hand, the NABRE (yes, I know everyone hates NABRE footnotes) says,

Stop holding on to me : see Mt 28:9, where the women take hold of his feet. I have not yet ascended : for John and many of the New Testament writers, the ascension in the theological sense of going to the Father to be glorified took place with the resurrection as one action. This scene in John dramatizes such an understanding, for by Easter night Jesus is glorified and can give the Spirit. Therefore his ascension takes place immediately after he has talked to Mary. In such a view, the ascension after forty days described in Acts 1:1–11would be simply a termination of earthly appearances or, perhaps better, an introduction to the conferral of the Spirit upon the early church, modeled on Elisha’s being able to have a (double) share in the spirit of Elijah if he saw him being taken up (same verb as ascending) into heaven (2 Kgs 2:9–12).

Challoner seems to be silent on this issue.

 

[fide]

A careful listening to the Greek of the two passages points to the difference, and also to the meaning of 20:17 in particular. John is very careful, and very precise, in his Gospel - we can devote many hours (years!) to listening to John’s Gospel, and we will still be beginners at it.

1. In 20:17, the RSV translates it "“Do not hold me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father…”
   The NAB, ““Stop holding on to me, for I have not yet ascended.”
   A literal Greek interpretation might be rendered “do not attach yourself to me”.

I believe we can hear Jesus saying in this passage that she (and we) must not cling to His resurrected but not-yet-ascended Self, because His ascension is absolutely necessary for the completion of our salvation. The resurrection was and is amazing! But our destiny is not on this earth, not even in resurrected bodies! We too must ascend, to find our true home.

1. The scene with Thomas does not use any word for “touching” or “holding”, but instead John writes that Jesus spoke of Thomas seeing Him using his (Thomas’s) finger and hand.
   This passage is not about the ascension, but about faith: Thomas must learn that believing is not about seeing (or “touching”) - it is about faith: saving faith is a gift of God, it is NOT a “proven-by-human-experimentation,” human conclusion (via “touching” or by any other human condition/experiment) to “prove” God’s power!

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Thanks for that, Fide, I was wondering what the literal Greek said. I tried looking up RSV-CE for this passage online, but there didn’t seem to be any interpretive footnote.

I kind of like the “don’t attach yourself to me” interpretation. I can picture Mary Magdalene, who loved Jesus so much, being overly effusive and him needing to kind of put her off. While I am not very well schooled in theology, I am suspicious of the NABRE footnote interpretation, that Jesus somehow wasn’t actually “glorified” yet despite the fact that he is walking around in a body that doesn’t look like his own to Mary Magdalene (who didn’t see him at the Transfiguration and therefore wouldn’t know what he looked like glorified).

 

[FOG]

Thomas encounters Jesus (Still before His ascension) and says, “Put in thy finger hither, and see my hands; and bring hither thy hand, and put it into my side; and be not faithless, but believing.”

But then again, continue reading and we find that there is no mention that Thomas actually did touch the wounds of Christ’s passion before making his profession of faith:

John 20:27-29
27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side; do not be faithless, but believing.” 28 Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 ¶ Jesus said to him, “You have believed because you have seen me. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe.”

Thomas believe because his eyes were finally opened to allow him to see the Glory of Jesus, not because he touched him. It could be argued this is affirmed by the words of Christ in verse 29.

 

[BartholomewB]

The scene with Thomas does not use any word for “touching” or “holding”, but instead John writes that Jesus spoke of Thomas seeing Him using his (Thomas’s) finger and hand.

The usual translation of the verb ballo, in this verse, is “put” or “place”. I think Jesus is clearly telling Thomas to touch him. The literal translation is, “Bring your hand and put it into my side.”
https://biblehub.com/john/20-27.htm

 

[fide]

You’re welcome, Tis_B. I often use a downloaded e-Sword (https://www.e-sword.net) for an interlinear Greek of the KJV, and compare with the RSVCE (which can be bought to interface with e-Sword for a small cost, I forgot what exactly).

As for footnote-commentaries, all who read them in any Bible have to keep remembering: footnote comments are not Holy Scripture, they are the sometimes helpful and sometimes not helpful comments selected by the editors of the particular publication of the particular version. They are not infallible. But they are (we hope) educated understandings of faithful Scripture scholars, no more no less.

 

[fide]

Yes, Jesus is telling Thomas to experience His presence by “putting” or “placing” (or “thrusting”) his hand into His side - but He is teaching Thomas something about faith, about life-receiving"believing", which comes not by seeing (or “touching”).

Jn 20:27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see (εἴδω - eidō - see) my hands; and put out your hand, and place (βάλλω - ballō - thrust) it in my side; do not be faithless, but believing.”
Jn 20:28 Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”
Jn 20:29 Jesus said to him, "Have you believed because you have seen (ὁράω - horaō - stare at, discern clearly) me? Blessed are those who have not seen (εἴδω - eidō - see) and yet believe.”

 

[BartholomewB]

Yes, agreed. In fact the next verse shows that Thomas did not obey Jesus’ imperative. He did not touch the wound in Jesus’ side. But that doesn’t mean he was forbidden to touch it. We are still left with the apparent contradiction that @CClody drew attention to in his OP.

 

[Todd_Easton]

When Jesus raised other people from the dead, such as Lazarus, the widow’s son and Jairus’ daughter, they returned to live a normal, earthly life. When Mary saw that Jesus was raised from the dead, it is likely she wrongly thought that Jesus would also return to live a normal, earthly life. Jesus’ words to Mary were intended to correct this misunderstanding. Jesus did not return to live a normal, earthly life but, rather, would make a few appearances and then ascend to heaven.

 

[Joe_5859]

Here’s a few other footnotes on the verse from other commentaries.

From the Ignatius Study Bible:

20:17 Do not hold me: Mary wants to keep Jesus with her, but he must first ascend to the Father. Only then will he come again to his disciples in spiritual and sacramental ways.

From the Navarre Commentary:

20:17. “Do not hold me”: the use of the negative imperative in the Greek, reflected in the New Vulgate (“noli me tenere”) indicates that our Lord is telling Mary to release her hold on him, to let him go, since she will have another chance to see him before his ascension into heaven.

From the Catholic Commentary on Sacred Scripture:

[20:17a] But the resurrection of Jesus has changed absolutely everything, including the relationship between him and his followers. The disciples, such as Mary, can relate to him no longer as an earthly teacher but as the risen Lord. Jesus’ order, Stop holding on to me, is meant in a figurative sense: Mary can no longer hold on to her past notions of discipleship.

His explanation, for I have not yet ascended to the Father, speaks of this new state of affairs. The exaltation of the risen Jesus at the Father’s right hand, and the sending of the Holy Spirit, completes the Father’s saving work. It marks the entrance of Jesus’ glorified humanity into God’s own life and thus gives humanity access to communion with the Father, the purpose for which Jesus came. Jesus precedes his disciples to glorified life with the Father, opens the way to the Father, and enables them to follow (13:36).

 

[CClody]

Truly, Jesus makes all things new!

 

[fide]

What contradiction do you mean? I thought the matter was resolved.

 

[BartholomewB]

The apparent contradiction between the negative imperative, “Don’t hold me”, in one verse and the positive imperative, “Put [your hand] in my side”, in the other.

 

[Fraevo63]

I just want to say to the OP that this is an excellent question!
Thank you.

 

[fide]

There is no contradiction; there is a very important distinction involved. Jesus taught a crucially important distinction to all those disciples gathered, Thomas in particular, in asking, "“Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe.”

Thomas’ answer would have been, if he had needed to answer, “No, my Lord - now I “see” and understand. I believe in you not because I saw you and/or touched you and your wounds. I believe because I was changed in my soul. In my soul was revealed to me what was revealed to Peter before the Passion ever came. Flesh and blood did not reveal this to me, but the Father in heaven!”

Jesus confirmed this inner work of God in Thomas’ soul, when He said “Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe.”

Thomas became one of those “blessed” as Jesus stood in front of Him, offering to Thomas an opportunity to confirm in Thomas’ “flesh” that Jesus, resurrected, was alive and right there in front of him. But Thomas no longer needed or wanted a confirmation by “flesh and blood” - he received in interior confirmation directly from God in his soul! Thus he was one of the blessed who believed not because “flesh and blood” (that is by a natural human “proof”) revealed it, but Thomas was blessed with faith to say - as Peter did before - “My Lord and my God” - by the work of God in him.

Do you see this? To Mary Magdalene Jesus was teaching His necessary Ascension. Unless He ascended, the Holy Spirit could not be poured out to humanity. To Thomas Jesus was teaching the necessity of supernatural Faith - faith infused directly by God into the soul. This kind of faith is necessary for salvation.

There are two radically different and distinct kinds of faith:

1. natural faith, such as a man gains by reasoning, by argument, by seeing miracles, by childhood upbringing, and so on - by man’s natural faculties. This kind of faith is very common, but is not in itself salvific, as Paul teaches:
   [Eph 2:8 ] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God—
   [Eph 2:9 ] not because of works, lest any man should boast.
2. supernatural faith:
   Grace, the free gift of God, infuses the supernatural virtue of faith in the soul - bringing the justification that leads to salvation. The works of the natural man - works of his intellect, works of his memory and will, cannot justify him - no man can save himself. As St. Thomas Aquinas (I think) said, “Only God can reveal God.”

Many words - I hope this is clear.