Hare Krishna - Hinduism for Christians?

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Ian: I hope you saw my message of today May 1, 2009…and that *someone *read it. …So hate argument that I removed my subscription to this thread when I saw Ian Corrigan had posted today (the second time today I’d heard from this thread, silent for over two years)… not knowing whether your reply was from a “friend” or a “foe,” i.e., - in agreement with my views, or not. Or even addressed to me. I should be thankful no one is responding to it directly.

Having these views, strongly held ones reached after protracted struggle, to which epiphanies occur to me still … is a type of burden. I am seeing it as God’s will. I don’t even want to write a book, to me, another form of argument. But someone has to.

This is a very very deep issue, as the entire New Age approach dovetails quite closely with Hinduism, and the New Age is also the opposite of the Christian approach. In fact, it could be quite demoniac (that is, the New Age could be - and I was a fan of The Sedona Journal of Emergence, too!). SJE is the foremost channeling in the English language; people have their revelations published and are paid. All in all, comments about how the plant may have to die are probably accurate. For the seed to fall into the ground, and eventually sprout MUCH BIGGER, it may be necessary for Catholicism to appear to almost die. It bears NO ressemblance to New Age thought, the bastion of relativism, you create your own reality, celebrate yourself above all. All in all rudderlessness. Can you imagine St. Padre Pio’s views of the New Age, with his direct experience with more than one devil, more than once?

Some ordinary soul has to be asaigned the task of being rabidly concerned as I am with ascertaining just what IS the truth here! VEDIC vs Christianity - it IS a stark contrast in the entire way of viewing every aspect of life. Someday, I hope to arrange to be on “The Journey Home,” on www.ewtn.com with Marcus Grodi. More stories of Hindu to Christian conversions need to be told - I have seen only one so far, going back to 2005 as I load programs onto my IPod.
 
There is what the Hindu called “Temple” on the street next to mine in Chicago. My Catholic church is almost directly across the street. Are we as Christians supposed to try to convert them to Christianity? They constantly try to give you things and entice you into their pegan rituals. I have mentioned that I am Catholic to them and that I’m not interested in their offerings but they push it on you. They are usually very peaceful and friendly it’s just I feel sorry for their souls. What can I do as a lay person?
 
IanCorrigan said:
as I read through the website it became clear to me this was paganism, specifically Hinduism repackaged for the West.

2)Although both Krishna and we souls are spiritual, we can never be equal to Him. He is like the powerful sun, and we are like tiny particles of sunshine.

Some schools of Hinduism teach that individuals can ‘become one with’ God, even vanish into God. Others, such as the Krishna religion hold that we can only come to rest and bask in His glory and bliss, never becoming one with His transcendence. In this way it is also rather like most schools of monotheistic theology.

3)The main feature of the spiritual world is that everyone there loves God (Krishna and His expansions) with the fullness of their being. When we purify our hearts and awaken our innate love for Krishna, we become qualified to enter the spiritual world
What they are describing is a sort of Christian Heaven with the words “spiritual world” substituted.

Hinduism has always contained the notion of many ‘spiritual worlds’ - ‘heavens and hells’, and places that aren’t either. This one can’t be blamed in Christian influence. The notion that the blessing of the God allows the devotee to enter the God’s specific ‘heaven’ isn’t unusual either. In that case Heaven = presence.

4) The goal of human life is to re-awaken our original pure love for God, Krishna. We souls exist to have an intimate loving relationship with Him.
More paganism repackaged to sound Christian.

See, I’m not sure that’s fair. I don’t think it’s at all fair to think that the modern Krishna religion was simply ‘repackaged’ to ‘appeal to Christians’. Krishna devotionalism is a major strand of traditional Hindu religion, and exists in places that have never seen a bible.
The western extension of that, brought here by that famous swami, is rather more deliberately tailored for western, therefore culturally Christian, proselytes. But it came over whole, and just had to be adjusted. The descriptions you quote are just translations of Indian concepts.

Krishna became incarnate in a body 500 years ago.

A core belief of Hinduism is that the God Vishnu occasionally incarnates among mortals to bring the power of the divine into the world. The most famous of his incarnations is the hero-god Rama (George sings Hare Krishna, Hare Rama in the song…) and the other most famous is Krishna. Many Krishna devotionalists deny this, and call Vishnu an aspect of Krishna, rather than t’other way 'round, but Vishnu is the original, and the incarnate hero-God Krishna much later.

The occasional birth of the divine in flesh is a standard Hindu doctrine from way before Christianity happened. Web-search avatar-vs-incarnation for Christian discussions on the ideas.

**Another “selling point” especially in modern Western society is the craze over yoga which a key part of this movement. **

And, once again, honestly come by. These Krishna devotees are authentic inheritors of one of the traditional religions of India, though some Hindus find them heretical. Yoga is a core part of the spiritual practice of Indian religions - as core as things like solitude and repetitive prayer (which Catholics really may have gotten from the Hindus) are to Catholic practice. So it’s no surprise to find it in this system.

So, there’s some notes. I find the Krishnas an interesting sect - they make lovely temples, have great devotional music and do wonderful devotional art. There God isn’t for me, but I did go see them do ceremony at their big commune in West Virginia some years ago. Incidentally they encourage monasticism (which Catholicism may have gotten from Hinduism or Buddhism), sexual purity, vegetarianism and what they call ‘ahimsa’ - non-violence.

And a Merry May to all 🙂
Ian
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Great post Ian. I would offer just two minor corrections if I may, otherwise what you have written is uncannily correct for a non-Hindu. Anyway I just wanted to point out two things If I may:

-Monotheism in Hinduism is present throughout the Upanishads, which are also important Hindu scriptural texts. These teachings were meticulously maintained orally for about 5 or 6 thousand years through a very rigorous process of recital. They were committed to writing no later than 500 to 200 years before Christ. Therefore, we do not feel that our ideas on monotheism are influenced by Christianity. Our monotheism does differ a good deal from mainstream Christianity, in that we do not see ourselves as separate from God, as you have rightly pointed out.

-The other correction was actually not in your post, but the one you replied to. Krishna was not 500 years ago, but most likely written about in the Gita about 500 BCE, and thought to have lived long before that. I’m thinking that may have been a typo on the initial post.

Anyway, I enjoyed your post and appreciate the attention to detail on your part.

On the subject of the post in general, it was stared that these Hare Krishnas want to convert Christians. I don’t know any Hare Krishna’s, but if they are doing this, it would be very un-Hindu. We do not look for converts for three important reasons:
  1. Krishna teaches in the Gita not to trouble the minds of other people with what you know, unless they ask you.
  2. Krishna tells His followers not to mention His name in the company of people who would speak ill of Him, because it sets their spiritual progress back, and therefore we would be hindering the growth of those who would scoff at Him. This is reason number two why a true Hindu wouldn’t try to convert Christians or speak of such things.
  3. We believe all people find God eventually on whatever path they are on. Because of this, there is no need to change the faiths of others.
Your friend,
Sufjon
 
Sufjon said:
On the subject of the post in general, it was stared that these Hare Krishnas want to convert Christians. I don’t know any Hare Krishna’s, but if they are doing this, it would be very un-Hindu. We do not look for converts for three important reasons:
  1. Krishna teaches in the Gita not to trouble the minds of other people with what you know, unless they ask you.
  2. Krishna tells His followers not to mention His name in the company of people who would speak ill of Him, because it sets their spiritual progress back, and therefore we would be hindering the growth of those who would scoff at Him. This is reason number two why a true Hindu wouldn’t try to convert Christians or speak of such things.
  3. We believe all people find God eventually on whatever path they are on. Because of this, there is no need to change the faiths of others.
Your friend,
Sufjon
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Greetings, Sufjon:

Hare Krishnas are different from (other) Hindus in a few ways, one of which is that they (at least in the '70s and '80s) stood on street-corners and in airports handing out copies of the Bhagavad Gita. The ultimate purpose was to spread Krishna-Consciousness, which could be done without leading someone to actually convert to the Hare Krishnas – but, hey, if you decided to convert, they would be happy to accept you!
 
SedesDomi said:
Greetings, Sufjon:

Hare Krishnas are different from (other) Hindus in a few ways, one of which is that they (at least in the '70s and '80s) stood on street-corners and in airports handing out copies of the Bhagavad Gita. The ultimate purpose was to spread Krishna-Consciousness, which could be done without leading someone to actually convert to the Hare Krishnas – but, hey, if you decided to convert, they would be happy to accept you!
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Thanks for the clarification SedesDomi!

Your friend,
Sufjon
 
Schmooie said:
There is what the Hindu called “Temple” on the street next to mine in Chicago. My Catholic church is almost directly across the street. Are we as Christians supposed to try to convert them to Christianity? They constantly try to give you things and entice you into their pegan rituals. I have mentioned that I am Catholic to them and that I’m not interested in their offerings but they push it on you. They are usually very peaceful and friendly it’s just I feel sorry for their souls. What can I do as a lay person?
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It depends on what level of apologetics you are at. You could try to ask them why they think their religion is ‘right’, and then share why you believe Catholicism is right. From there, you can come back to Catholic Answers and ask any questions you have.
Then again, these folks might not be open to any dialogue, or be oblivious to the notion of thinking outside their pagansim, so it would be hard to have any real discussion. Also, if things feel weird, don’t continue the discussion.
 
Catholic_Dude said:
It depends on what level of apologetics you are at. You could try to ask them why they think their religion is ‘right’, and then share why you believe Catholicism is right. From there, you can come back to Catholic Answers and ask any questions you have.
Then again, these folks might not be open to any dialogue, or be oblivious to the notion of thinking outside their pagansim, so it would be hard to have any real discussion. Also, if things feel weird, don’t continue the discussion.
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Hi Catholic Dude: Two questions:
  1. What would you hope to gain by engaging them? These people seem to be westerners, so they are likely to already know what you believe. Considering this, what is the point of engaging them? Mind you, I would ask them the same question about engaging you.
  2. Pagans are fine with me, and of course they are fine without me as well, and I respect their beliefs. That aside, can you tell me what is pagan about the worship of Krishna? Again, the question is not whether you disagree or think it is wrong, because I can sense where you are on that. The question is what is pagan about the worship of what one believes to be one God in Human form?
Your friend,
Sufjon
 
The song by George Harrison is entitled “My Sweet Lord.”
 
Catholic_Dude said:
Does anyone have Catholic Apologetics regarding this topic?
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When I was a young kid we lived close to the WV line. There was a bar we used to go right around there.

They built what was called a temple of Gold for their god. Well what happend he died before they could get it finished.

So I can tell you for sure this is a false god because this was for him. I have so old picures somewhere. They used to let you walk around and see the place.

When we were younger (and I was cute and young and blond and stupid) the guys building it used to alway’s let us walk around and see what they were doing. Then later on it came on the news that someone was killed and buried there.

They used to go to the Pittsburgh airport later and sell flowers and stuff. They reminded me of a bunch of stoners personally.🤷

But I was never into the drug scene, but believe me those people were on something. They always looked like they were stoned. I swear.

But they were very kind, like in a flower child kind of way. But I don’t know if the temple is even there anymore. I am going to have to check it out.

Summers comming and my husband and I like to drive alot on the bike. I am going to have him take me there and see if its still there. You don’t hear much about it anymore since the head guy there I believe went to jail. BUt please don’t take this for gospel I am not sure. But I will find out.

But if you google temple of gold in West Virginia you will probally find out. But I will say the temple was beautiful. All painted with they told me gold paint with 14kt dust in the paint or something.

I took my Dad there once he wanted to kill me when he saw where it was. Like I said at that time it was out in the far back woods.
 
Here is what happened to their leader in West Virginia.

He was found guilty on 2 prinicple crimes.

They got him on Fraud.

And he authorized a murder saying it was authorized under Ancient Hindu Law.

Real nice guy huh? :rolleyes:

He does not let husbands sleep with their wives. Wives on one side of the road across the street lives the Husbands. He feels if they do not have sex with their wives they have more time to focus on God. Okay RIght. Llke taking sex off of my Husband would make him think of God more then me:rotfl:

It is called the Palace of Gold. The leader is Bhalctipada.

Like I said its been like 30 years since I have been there. But I still remember how weird they were. They had like half shaved heads, some full shaved heads. The women wore long dresses. You could smell someone smoking dope all the time it seemed like. But like I said this was years ago when no one even knew they were really there.

I hear they have hotels etc now. But I still would never stay. Like Is said they were weird and you could still come up missing.
 
Whenever we became ignorant about our faith and lacks awareness about our faith, such types of wolfs in sheeps clothes will come to us. It is to cheat us and to drive away from our faith…Why all these things happens in western christianity only?. Because western christians are ignorant about the teachings of christ and church…Look at the case of Africa, christianity grown there from 5% in 1950’s to 51% (500 million) in 2011. In Asia there are now 400 million christians.With 90% are regular church attendees. Now about 40% of total christians in this world are Asians and Africans.Where ever christians are firm in their faith we can see all ideologies, isms, other faiths bending knees before christianity…

In case of hare krishna movement they have right to preach what they belive , It is our duty to realise such traps and be faithful to christianity. Hinduism is a polytheistic religion. There are 33 million Gods for them. Defenitly this movement is aiming to convert christians to their faith…Beware about such wolfs in sheep’s clothes…
 
jerry_joseph said:
Whenever we became ignorant about our faith and lacks awareness about our faith, such types of wolfs in sheeps clothes will come to us. It is to cheat us and to drive away from our faith…Why all these things happens in western christianity only?. Because western christians are ignorant about the teachings of christ and church…Look at the case of Africa, christianity grown there from 5% in 1950’s to 51% (500 million) in 2011. In Asia there are now 400 million christians.With 90% are regular church attendees. Now about 40% of total christians in this world are Asians and Africans.Where ever christians are firm in their faith we can see all ideologies, isms, other faiths bending knees before christianity…

In case of hare krishna movement they have right to preach what they belive , It is our duty to realise such traps and be faithful to christianity. Hinduism is a polytheistic religion. There are 33 million Gods for them. Defenitly this movement is aiming to convert christians to their faith…Beware about such wolfs in sheep’s clothes…
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Hi Jerry Joseph:

-I would like to point out if I may that Hinduism is monotheistic, in that there is one God expressed as many. Expressed in all things for that matter. One God nonetheless. This is very clear in Hindu scripture. You see God in three persons. We see Him in many, including the three persons in whom you see Him.

-I would also like to point out that Hindu scriptures are very clear in that Hindus are not to attempt to convert people outside of Hinduism into Hinduism. This is expressly indicated by the Lord in the Bhgavad Gita. While there may be some people out there trying to convert people, this is against Hindu thought and, for the most part Hindus would prefer that you leave them alone, and they are happy to leave you to your religion as well. Any Hindu actively trying to convert Christians is not well schooled in scripture. Such people are engaged in a pointless enterprise. One must be spiritually ready for whatever level of worship they take on. To lead someone into something that they are not yet ready for or into something that is not right for them is a mistake. Therefore, it is thought that if one is to become a Hindu, they will seek it on their own.

My I ask where you got your education on Hinduism?

Your friend,
Sufjon
 
Dear,

First I want to tell you that preaching of ones religion is not a crime… You have the right to belive in your faith and preach. You said that Hindus does not belives in conversion… Then why most hindu sanyasis starts their first ashram in india and second ashram in europe or america or any other christian majority countries?. As the world have now become a global village everybody are now becoming aware about your acts, you cannot show two faces … One in hindu majority areas and another in hindu minority areas…

indianchristians.in/news/content/view/2800/45

asianews.it/news-en/Kandhamal:-slain-former-leader-of-Hindu-converted-to-Christianity-19298.html

chowrangi.com/over-1700-christians-converted-to-hinduism-in-india.html
 
Sufjon said:
-I would also like to point out that Hindu scriptures are very clear in that Hindus are not to attempt to convert people outside of Hinduism into Hinduism. This is expressly indicated by the Lord in the Bhgavad Gita. While there may be some people out there trying to convert people, this is against Hindu thought and, for the most part Hindus would prefer that you leave them alone, and they are happy to leave you to your religion as well. Any Hindu actively trying to convert Christians is not well schooled in scripture. Such people are engaged in a pointless enterprise. One must be spiritually ready for whatever level of worship they take on. To lead someone into something that they are not yet ready for or into something that is not right for them is a mistake. Therefore, it is thought that if one is to become a Hindu, they will seek it on their own.

Your friend,
Sufjon
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I’m a little confused by this idea of non-prosyletizing. It would seem to me from what is being said here that if someone had questions concerning Hinduism and inquired to a Hindu about their beliefs the Hindu should quietly shrug their shoulders and walk away.
Is that correct?
 
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