Has Idolatry led to this COVID-19 pandemic/plague?

[CathBoy1]

Day 23 – Let Freedom Ring: Freedom from IdolatryDay 23 - Let Freedom Ring: Freedom from Idolatry – United States Grace Force

Very interesting read.
I’m inclined to agree with Fr Richard Heilman in that this virus can be linked directly to the same timeframe as the pachamama incident, As Fr Heilman has wisely pointed out:

”A consistent theme in the bible is that when the people distance themselves from God and His will, which always leads to idolatry, God repeatedly allows a punishment, which is usually a plague.”

It is a connection that I hadn’t necessarily made, and yet seems to make perfect sense.
Now I’m not saying the pachamama incident is the sole cause (it doesn’t seem that Fr Heilman is either), but idolatry in general is and that it hit a boiling point at the time of the pachamama fiasco.

It is a very interesting theory nonetheless, what do y’all think?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I agree generally with the premise that we live in an idolatrous society where many things, primarily money/ materialism, sex, and power, are frequently placed ahead of God by many people who should know better. This is a common theme of pretty much every well-off civiization throughout history and it recurs constantly and we constantly must pray against it and try to rise ourselves above it.

I also agree generally with the premise that all pandemics and other hardships (war, famine, natural disaster etc) are ultimately caused by the sinful nature of man, because we live in a fallen world rather than the original problem-free Garden of Eden.

However, I do not agree with any priest or other person’s individual speculation that we specifically did A (such as not believe enough in the Real Presence, or allow Pachamama in the Vatican Garden) so God whammied us with B (Pandemic, riots, whatever). If it came from a Church-approved private revelation I might feel differently, but right now what we have is mostly speculations and/or someone’s purported unapproved private revelations making these claims.

Seriously, there are so many bad things we do year to year that one might ask why God whammied us now rather than in 2004. Or one might come up with bad things that happened in 2004 and claim those were all chastisements from God as well. Pretty soon you’re seeing God’s chastisements under every bush. (And this would suit Fr. Heilman just fine as he needs to come up with a new blog post to keep his 60,000 followers enthralled every day.)

I realize people who are trying to make sense of scary things or hardships are going to be looking for these kinds of patterns and often think they have found a gem. I don’t think it’s a helpful way to approach one’s faith, though.

 

[CathBoy1]

I don’t disagree, but I find the date of Oct 6th lining up on several points being quite interesting.

Oct 6th was the start of the Amazonian Synod.

Oct 6th was the date that Sr. Agnes Sasagawa of Akita received a private message, a message of repentance.

Oct 6th seems to be the date that a “hazardous event” took place at the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

Pretty soon you’re seeing God’s chastisements under every bush.

Actually I kind of look at it in the opposite view, perhaps God spares us of catastrophic events on a daily, weekly, monthly or yearly basis, and maybe after a boiling point perhaps He allows something to happen, just as He allows anything to happen.

But Fr Heilman seems to make a specific connection between idolatry and plague, and that connection is not entirely unheard of within Catholicism.
Take a look:

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Image from the “Très Riches Heures du duc de Berry” of Pope St. Gregory in procession against the plague, when St. Michael appeared over the tomb of Hadrian, now Castel Sant’Angelo. Gregory and the plague afflicted inhabitants of Rome got Religion.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

There’s a high degree of skepticism among experts in the intel community about that alleged Wuhan “event” purportedly on or around Oct 6. One thing I don’t like about Fr. Heilman and some other priests is that they latch onto dubious news items and then go around propagating them like they’re established truth. Their followers then believe it’s God’s honest truth because Father so-and-so said so.

Sister Agnes’ purported new message also has not been approved by the Church and for all we know could have been a fake message promulgated by those critical of the Synod. It was also extremely poorly sourced. If the message is later approved by the bishop or Church, I will withdraw my objection.

 

[CathBoy1]

skepticism among experts in the intel community about that alleged Wuhan “event” purportedly on or around Oct 6.

One thing I don’t like about Fr. Heilman and some other priests is that they latch onto dubious news items and then go around propagating them like they’re established truth.

So because there is skepticism among some experts on the issue, that means that these news reports are completely untrue?

That seems a bit hasty now doesn’t it?
I have seen many news reports in which there was some skepticism (and plenty of skeptics), that turned out to be quite factual (and vice versa), to completely disregard the reports as false and accuse Fr so-and-so (in this case Fr Heilman) of spreading false news seems to me to be a bit harsh, I mean after all Fr Heilman only states that “Reports have surfaced”, which is factually true (in that reports have indeed surfaced), weather those reports are correct only time will tell.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

No offense, but I’m getting the idea that you’ve decided you accept this whole theory and you don’t want to hear any criticism of it or hear from people who, like me, lean strongly towards “it’s bunk” and it’s a waste of time.

I don’t mind if you want to believe it, but I’m not interested in arguing with you about it because I doubt either one of us are going to change our minds.

God bless.

 

[CathBoy1]

No offense

None taken.

but I’m getting the idea that you’ve decided you accept this whole theory

Not necessarily, although I find it quite fascinating. Is it 100% accurate? Perhaps, perhaps not.
I do think it is possible, and I absolutely think that there is wisdom to be gleaned from Fr Heilman’s article.

I don’t mind if you want to believe it

I don’t mind that you don’t believe it.

but I’m not interested in arguing with you

I’m not sure that we were arguing, but no, I do not wish to argue, rather discuss.

God bless.

God Bless you as well.

 

[tuscany]

Maybe it’s just how nature works. Possibly pandemics/plagues are something that mankind needs to strengthen it’s DNA worldwide. Possibly pandemics/plagues come along every now and then to keep the stronger DNA around, and get rid of the weaker. God set it up, and lets the world/things/people evolve as they will until Jesus comes again.

 

[CathBoy1]

I wouldn’t argue the above, but perhaps God intervenes with nature to stop larger plagues/pandemics on a regular basis, until we find ourselves at a “boiling point” at which time God allows us to be cleansed by nature en masse.

To put it another way, you might have heard the story before about the woman who goes to a silversmith to watch the process of refining silver:

As she watched the silversmith, he held a piece of silver over the fire and let it heat up. He explained that in refining silver, one needed to hold the silver in the middle of the fire where the flames were hottest as to burn away all the impurities. The woman thought about God holding us in such a hot spot; then she thought again about the verse that says: ‘He sits as a refiner and purifier of silver.’ (Malachi 3:3) She asked the silversmith if it was true that he had to sit there in front of the fire the whole time the silver was being refined. The man answered that yes, he not only had to sit there holding the silver, but he had to keep his eyes on the silver the entire time it was in the fire. If the silver was left a moment too long in the flames, it would be destroyed. The woman was silent for a moment. Then she asked the silversmith, ‘How do you know when the silver is fully refined?’ He smiled at her and answered, ‘Oh, that’s easy — when I see my image in it.’

Perhaps God is using this COVID-19 pandemic as a way to refine us, but what I find interesting is what led up to this “boiling point”.

 

[tuscany]

Perhaps world wars and diseases are zaps from God to wake us up, or perhaps these things are just natural progressions of the free will God gave the earth and the humans on it. Humans have always had idols of one kind or another, and probably always will. Perhaps Covid-19 is a wake-up call from God, perhaps not, I don’t think there is a way we will know for sure in this lifetime.

Interesting article, but I tend to think Covid-19 is not a zap from God, but rather, an opportunity for we humans to show God if we choose to follow Him and are being kind, unselfish and caring for our neighbors or, are we hoarding, not helping our neighbors, thinking only of ourselves and our own families, and being judgmental. I think humans time and time again, have opportunities large and small, to do God’s work. It’s all about the choices we freely make.

 

[CathBoy1]

I think humans time and time again, have opportunities large and small, to do God’s work. It’s all about the choices we freely make.

I absolutely agree.

 

[stacie]

Wasn’t the Lisbon earthquake, way back when, regarded by some as God’s punishment?

And then someone (Voltaire?) pointed out that London or Paris deserved punishment far more than Lisbon.

 

[CathBoy1]

Msgr Pope has contracted COVID-19:

Prayer request: For Msgr. Charles Pope, who has tested positive for COVID-19 - Deacon Greg Kandra

From the article:

“Prudence has its place, but my concern as a pastor and physician of souls is that we are allowing unrelenting fear to drive our response. Until we as the Church confronting the situation and “man up” as Christians should, fear will masquerade as prudence, and folks like me who question whether we’ve gone too far will be called irresponsible and even reprehensible.

For the time being, follow the recommended precautions, but ask yourself, “When will this end, and who will get to decide that?” The Church, and each one of us, has a role to play in ending the fear that this pandemic has set loose. COVID-19 can undoubtedly be a serious illness, but contracting it is far from an automatic death sentence. However, getting sick and even eventually dying is a part of living in this world. Some will call me insensitive for even mentioning this truth, but our parents, grandparents, and more distant ancestors went forth daily into a world that was far more dangerous than anything we have experienced. They lived life, accepting both its blows and its blessings. What about us today? Is God no longer with us? Are sickness and death the worst fate or is crippling fear a far more painful and dehumanizing sentence? Isn’t there more to living than just not dying or not getting sick? Will we as a Church be part of this conversation or will we remain fearfully silent? Will we simply reflect the beliefs and opinions of the current culture, or will we influence it with a theology that insists that suffering and death have meaning and an important role in our lives?

No doubt some readers will think me imprudent, irresponsible, and insensitive. I accept that. But my take is that fear is a far more serious ailment than COVID-19. Life is risky, but there is greater ruin for us if we do not accept it and live anyway. At some point we have to break out of the huddle and run the play. God will be with us.”

Here is what Msgr had to say about idolatry a while back:

Please pray for this holy man.