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moiraecuadora
Guest
I was wondering if it is true that the third secret of Fatima has been revealed, and if so, when, and more importantly, what was the content of the third secret?
- Status
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Joe17
Guest
The Vatican released what was said to be the 3rd secret in 2000. It was a bag job. Cardinals Sodano and Ratzinger and Abp Bertone put it out. It was inconsistent with what Ratzinger himself said in late 84’ in “The Ratzinger Report.” The original Report had Ratzinger speaking of the events of the 3rd Secret having not yet have happened. With the report of 2000 however, they claim that the secret was about the assasinaition attempt on JPII and the JPII’s conversion of the world to Our Lady’s Immaculate Heart in the spring of 1984. It contradicts the original Ratzinger Report of late 1984. So, did Ratzinger not know the secret when he spoke in late 84’, did he forget or not know about what happened the previous spring, or what? What was released was a whitewash. I believe even Mother Angelica did not think the secret, or the entire secret was released as they said. Compare the preVII Sr Lucia’s writing’s/interviews with the later ones. They are not entirely consistent.
While I don’t agree with the author’s accepting of today’s Vatican as having authority, I would say that Paul Kramer’s “The Devil’s Final Battle”(2002) is an excellent read to help one uncover the inconsistencies that surround the 2000 secret compared to what has historically been shown to eminate from Sr Lucia.
Joe
While I don’t agree with the author’s accepting of today’s Vatican as having authority, I would say that Paul Kramer’s “The Devil’s Final Battle”(2002) is an excellent read to help one uncover the inconsistencies that surround the 2000 secret compared to what has historically been shown to eminate from Sr Lucia.
Joe
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palmas85
Guest
The Vatican says yes, others say no.
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Gara3987
Guest
The Third Part of the Secret revealed at the Cova da Iria-Fatima, on July 13, 1917.
I write in obedience to you, my God, who command me to do so through his Excellency the Bishop of Leiria and through your Most Holy Mother and mine.
Code:
After the two parts which I have already explained, at the left of Our Lady and a little above, we saw an Angel with a flaming sword in his left hand**;** flashing, it gave out flames that looked as though they would set the world on fire**;** but they died out in contact with the splendor that Our Lady radiated towards him from her right hand**:** pointing to the earth with his right hand, the Angel cried out in a loud voice**:** ‘Penance, Penance, Penance!'. And we saw in an immense light that is God**:** ‘something similar to how people appear in a mirror when they pass in front of it' *a Bishop dressed in White ‘we had the impression that it was the Holy Father'*. Other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious going up a steep mountain, at the top of which there was a big Cross of rough-hewn trunks as of a cork-tree with the bark**;** before reaching there the Holy Fatherpassed through a big city half in ruins *and half trembling with halting*step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way**;** having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big Cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions. Beneath the two arms of the Cross there were two Angels each with a crystal aspersorium in his hand, in which they gathered up the blood of the Martyrs and with it sprinkled the souls that were making their way to God.
Tuy-3-1-1944.Trostch.org
Blog sobre el cristianismo donde hablamos de la historia, la biblia y quién fue Jesús de Nazaret.
www.trosch.org
Trostch.org
Blog sobre el cristianismo donde hablamos de la historia, la biblia y quién fue Jesús de Nazaret.
www.trosch.org
Trostch.org
Blog sobre el cristianismo donde hablamos de la historia, la biblia y quién fue Jesús de Nazaret.
www.trosch.org
Trostch.org
Blog sobre el cristianismo donde hablamos de la historia, la biblia y quién fue Jesús de Nazaret.
www.trosch.org
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wraithx
Guest
Malachi Martin was privy to the third secret, and his hints at what it contained do not match the secret as released by the Vatican. He said it had to do with Satan entering the Vatican at the highest places - John XXIII would not release it - saying it was not for his pontificate, and Paul VI did not release it - presumably because people would have rejected his changes if they read that the Virgin Mary in an approved apparition said that the majority of Catholics would break away from the faith and that the priests and cardinals would lose the faith.
To be honest, much of what Malachi Martin said makes the modern Church make a lot more sense. God help us all!
To be honest, much of what Malachi Martin said makes the modern Church make a lot more sense. God help us all!
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Nickkname
Guest
I’d believe the Vatican sooner than anyone else. The third secet was released. Sr. Lucia confirmed it.
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Lazerlike42
Guest
moiraecuadora,
John Paul II, Cardinal Ratzinger - now Pope Benedict XVI - and Cardinal Bertone have all stated that the Third Secret has been revealed.
Some claim otherwise, but regardless of the various reasons that they may truly in their hearts feel warrant them to do so, they ultimately are able to only at the expense of declaring these three faithful men to be liars.
That’s really what it all comes down to. I have spent a gret deal of effort studying this issue, and I can tell you that it is a complicated one with all sorts of evidence being presented by both sides of the dispute. If you really have a lot of time and energy on your hands, and most importantly a willingness to not simply accept what the more vocal side (those who claim it remains hidden) of the debate puts forth but to search for the rest of the information.
However, if you do not have that ability, time, or energy - and even if you do - it comes down to one thing: in order to believe that the 3rd secret remains a secret, one must believe that John Paul II and Benedict XVI have both blatantly lied to the flock entrusted to their care. To do so is, in my opinion, not possible by anyone with even the slightest understanding of the character of these men.
In the end, it is a matter of private revelation. No Catholic is even required to believe that Mary truly appeared at Fatima. Thus, I cannot fathom how one can consider it a matter worth even *risking *the terrible slander of the persons of John Paul II and Benedict XVI over.
Peace and God bless
John Paul II, Cardinal Ratzinger - now Pope Benedict XVI - and Cardinal Bertone have all stated that the Third Secret has been revealed.
Some claim otherwise, but regardless of the various reasons that they may truly in their hearts feel warrant them to do so, they ultimately are able to only at the expense of declaring these three faithful men to be liars.
That’s really what it all comes down to. I have spent a gret deal of effort studying this issue, and I can tell you that it is a complicated one with all sorts of evidence being presented by both sides of the dispute. If you really have a lot of time and energy on your hands, and most importantly a willingness to not simply accept what the more vocal side (those who claim it remains hidden) of the debate puts forth but to search for the rest of the information.
However, if you do not have that ability, time, or energy - and even if you do - it comes down to one thing: in order to believe that the 3rd secret remains a secret, one must believe that John Paul II and Benedict XVI have both blatantly lied to the flock entrusted to their care. To do so is, in my opinion, not possible by anyone with even the slightest understanding of the character of these men.
In the end, it is a matter of private revelation. No Catholic is even required to believe that Mary truly appeared at Fatima. Thus, I cannot fathom how one can consider it a matter worth even *risking *the terrible slander of the persons of John Paul II and Benedict XVI over.
Peace and God bless
W
wraithx
Guest
Actually - just JPII - Benedict was not Pope when he made his statements. As you have done so much research, can you explain why Cardinal Oddi said this in 1990:
“the Blessed Virgin was alerting us to the apostasy in the Church”
Yet the “revealed” secret does not mention it?
Additionally Pope Benedict (before he was elevated to the Papacy) said that the secret referred to the end times - are you saying that the man who is now Pope publicly declared that we are now in the end times (since JPII said it referred to the attempted assassination on his life)?
What of this: In 1984, the Bishop of Fatima said:
“The Secret of Fatima speaks neither of atomic bombs, nor nuclear warheads, nor Pershing missiles, nor SS-20’s. Its content concerns only our faith. To identify the Secret with catastrophic announcements or with a nuclear holocaust is to deform the meaning of the message. The loss of faith of a continent is worse than the annihilation of a nation; and it is true that faith is continually diminishing in Europe.”
The Vatican told him to retract his statement. He followed up with this:
“Before I asserted in Vienna (in 1984) that the Third Secret concerned only our Faith and the loss of Faith I had consulted Sister Lucy and first obtained her approval.”
Even Mother Angelica doesn’t believe that the full third secret has been revealed:
“As for the Secret, well I happen to be one of those individuals who thinks we didn’t get the whole thing.” 2001
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Nickkname
Guest
Sr. Lucia confirmed that the third part of the secret was revealed. Now, whether you believe her or not is your own personal opinion and dose not change the fact that the three parts of the secret of Fatima have all been revealed. Furthermore, the Consecration that Our Lady requested was completed, and again, Sr. Lucia confirmed it. Whether you believe her or not is your own personal opinion and dose not change the fact that the Consecration was done and ratified in heaven.
Sr. Lucia: "No More Mysteries in Fátima Secret"
VATICAN CITY, DEC. 20, 2001 - Sister Maria Lucia said that the secret of Fátima does not refer to the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, that its contents have been completely revealed by the Holy See, and that Russia has been consecrated to the Virgin Mary, as Our Lady requested.
The sole survivor of the visionaries of the Marian apparitions made this statement Nov. 17 to Archbishop Tarcisio Bertone, secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.
The content of the meeting between the Vatican aide and the elderly visionary, held at her convent in Coimbra, Portugal, was published today by the Vatican Press Office.
The text of the document states: “In recent months, especially following the sad events of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, articles appeared in newspapers alleging new revelations by Sister Lucia, announcements of letters of warning to the Pope, and apocalyptic reinterpretations of the Fátima message.”
“Moreover, emphasis was placed on the suspicion that the Holy See had not published the entire text of the third part of the secret, and some ‘Fatimist’ movements have repeated the accusation that the Holy Father has yet to consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary,” the document continues.
As a result, the Vatican note clarifies, it was considered necessary that Archbishop Bertone go personally “to clarify and obtain direct information from the visionary.”
The meeting was held in the presence of Father Luis Kondor, vice postulator of the cause of Blessed Francisco and Jacinta, and of the prioress of St. Teresa’s Carmelite Convent.
The conversation took place on the afternoon of Nov. 17 and lasted more than two hours. “Sister Lucia, who will be 95 on March 22, was in great form – lucid and vivacious,” the Vatican envoy said.
The meeting addressed the question of the third part of the secret of Fátima. The Portuguese religious said that she had read “carefully and meditated on the fascicle published by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and confirms everything that is written,” the Vatican statement noted.
When the archbishop explained that there are doubts that part of the secret remains unknown, Sister Lucia replied: “Everything has been published; there are no more secrets.”
“If I had received new revelations, I would not have communicated them to anyone, but I would have told them directly to the Holy Father,” the religious added.
The group then spoke about the statements of Nicholas Gruner, a Canadian priest suspended “a divinis,” who is collecting signatures insisting that the Pope finally consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, and alleging that this has never been done.
Sister Lucia told the archbishop: “The Carmel Community has rejected the forms for the collection of signatures. I have already said that the consecration requested by Our Lady was done in 1984, and it has been accepted in heaven.”
Lastly, the conversation turned to Sister Lucia’s personal life. Some articles in the press suggested that her concern robbed her of sleep and that she was praying night and day.
The religious answered: “It’s not true. How would I be able to pray during the day if I did not sleep at night? How many things they attribute to me! How many things they make me do! They should read my book “The Appeals of the Fátima Message”]; the advice and appeals that correspond to Our Lady’s wishes are there. Prayer and penance, with great faith in God’s power, will save the world.” ZE01122008
See also Meeting with Sr. Maria Lucia
This article has been selected from the ZENIT Daily Dispatch
© Innovative Media, Inc.
ZENIT International News Agency
Via della Stazione di Ottavia, 95
00165 Rome, Italy
www.zenit.org
To subscribe zenit.org/english/subscribe.html
or email: english-request@zenit.org with SUBSCRIBE in the “subject” field
*Source: *vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decl_19651028_nostra-aetate_en.html
Sr. Lucia: "No More Mysteries in Fátima Secret"
VATICAN CITY, DEC. 20, 2001 - Sister Maria Lucia said that the secret of Fátima does not refer to the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, that its contents have been completely revealed by the Holy See, and that Russia has been consecrated to the Virgin Mary, as Our Lady requested.
The sole survivor of the visionaries of the Marian apparitions made this statement Nov. 17 to Archbishop Tarcisio Bertone, secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.
The content of the meeting between the Vatican aide and the elderly visionary, held at her convent in Coimbra, Portugal, was published today by the Vatican Press Office.
The text of the document states: “In recent months, especially following the sad events of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, articles appeared in newspapers alleging new revelations by Sister Lucia, announcements of letters of warning to the Pope, and apocalyptic reinterpretations of the Fátima message.”
“Moreover, emphasis was placed on the suspicion that the Holy See had not published the entire text of the third part of the secret, and some ‘Fatimist’ movements have repeated the accusation that the Holy Father has yet to consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary,” the document continues.
As a result, the Vatican note clarifies, it was considered necessary that Archbishop Bertone go personally “to clarify and obtain direct information from the visionary.”
The meeting was held in the presence of Father Luis Kondor, vice postulator of the cause of Blessed Francisco and Jacinta, and of the prioress of St. Teresa’s Carmelite Convent.
The conversation took place on the afternoon of Nov. 17 and lasted more than two hours. “Sister Lucia, who will be 95 on March 22, was in great form – lucid and vivacious,” the Vatican envoy said.
The meeting addressed the question of the third part of the secret of Fátima. The Portuguese religious said that she had read “carefully and meditated on the fascicle published by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and confirms everything that is written,” the Vatican statement noted.
When the archbishop explained that there are doubts that part of the secret remains unknown, Sister Lucia replied: “Everything has been published; there are no more secrets.”
“If I had received new revelations, I would not have communicated them to anyone, but I would have told them directly to the Holy Father,” the religious added.
The group then spoke about the statements of Nicholas Gruner, a Canadian priest suspended “a divinis,” who is collecting signatures insisting that the Pope finally consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, and alleging that this has never been done.
Sister Lucia told the archbishop: “The Carmel Community has rejected the forms for the collection of signatures. I have already said that the consecration requested by Our Lady was done in 1984, and it has been accepted in heaven.”
Lastly, the conversation turned to Sister Lucia’s personal life. Some articles in the press suggested that her concern robbed her of sleep and that she was praying night and day.
The religious answered: “It’s not true. How would I be able to pray during the day if I did not sleep at night? How many things they attribute to me! How many things they make me do! They should read my book “The Appeals of the Fátima Message”]; the advice and appeals that correspond to Our Lady’s wishes are there. Prayer and penance, with great faith in God’s power, will save the world.” ZE01122008
See also Meeting with Sr. Maria Lucia
This article has been selected from the ZENIT Daily Dispatch
© Innovative Media, Inc.
ZENIT International News Agency
Via della Stazione di Ottavia, 95
00165 Rome, Italy
www.zenit.org
To subscribe zenit.org/english/subscribe.html
or email: english-request@zenit.org with SUBSCRIBE in the “subject” field
*Source: *vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decl_19651028_nostra-aetate_en.html
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redrosetea
Guest
Here is a link about the third secret from the BBC…I see no reason for the church to not tell the whole thing. I beleive this is what the third secret means
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/747312.stm
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/747312.stm
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Lazerlike42
Guest
It doesn’t matter whether Benedict was pope or not. What matters is that he is very obviously humble and holy man the character of whom precludes the possibility of his having presented such a blatant lie to the faithful. I really don’t care what Mother Angelica has to say either… she is a wonderful and holy woman, but she has never been well educated in her faith, at least not in some respects. She knew a great deal and gave wonderful instruction, but she also offered words which were very close to heresy many times. I can’t watch her because of it… I just become angry whenever she says such a thing and begin to have uncharitable feelings, so I now avoid the program
.Now you certainly pose difficult questions. Certainly, they could be answered by pointing out that some of these people may simply have been mistaken, and by pointing out that Sister Lucia not only affirmed what John Paul II said, but also continued to live until her dying day receiving the Eucharist in the Pauline rite of Mass, submitting to the Church hierarchy, and doing other things inconsistent with bellieving most of what has been written about what the “real” secret supposedly pertains to.
But the point is that I could ask some very difficult questions as well. I have already done so in the previous paragraph. Others would be:
- Why did Father Gruner (the world’s leading Fatima conspiracy proponent, for those unaware) attack Sister Lucia’s convent in 1992, attempting to break into the cloister in order to speak with her? Everything I know about the discernment of spirits would suggest that this is a very good reason to be skeptical of the man’s teachings.
- Why did Carlos Everisto, a former follower of Fr. Gruner’s who worked for his ministry, reject the Fatima Conspiracies upon speaking to Sister Lucia?
- Why was Mr. Everisto attempted to be bribed into denying Sister Lucia’s declaration that Russia has been consecrated?
What it comes down to is that there are difficult questions for each side off the debate to answer, with one very simple question that clears up all the confusion: would John Paul II lie about this?
Or would Cardinal Ratzinger have?
The answer on both accounts is a resounding NO. To suggest otherwise is an *extraordinary *claim, requiring extraordinary evidence, not conflicting statements and difficult objections which can be met with equally difficult objections.
Peace and God bless
- Status