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godsent
Guest
Has the holy bible been altered by man and somehow changed it from its original teachings?
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DaveBj
Guest
Without addressing the question of changes to the teachings, I would say (as a professional translator) that every time the Bible is translated, the meaning of text is altered. It is impossible to translate from one language to another without altering the original in some way.
Also, a study of textual criticism shows that there were hundreds of thousands of alterations in the text as copies were made.
The realization of how the extensiveness of uncertainty in dealing with Biblical texts blew the legs off the Protestant assertion that we as individuals are capable of interpreting the Bible for ourselves was the major event in my life that started me toward conversion to Catholicism.
DaveBj
Also, a study of textual criticism shows that there were hundreds of thousands of alterations in the text as copies were made.
The realization of how the extensiveness of uncertainty in dealing with Biblical texts blew the legs off the Protestant assertion that we as individuals are capable of interpreting the Bible for ourselves was the major event in my life that started me toward conversion to Catholicism.
DaveBj
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Verbum
Guest
Hi Godsent,
Here from the DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON DIVINE REVELATION (DEI VERBUM) of the Second Vatican Council
From this, we understand that God’s revelation, both written and unwritten, has been preserved over the ages. This does not exclude that minor details might have been altered in the manuscripts of the Bible. Ultimately, the Church has the full deposit of revelation, so that not an iota of God’s revelation is lost.
Verbum
Here from the DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON DIVINE REVELATION (DEI VERBUM) of the Second Vatican Council
Full text at rc.net/rcchurch/vatican2/dei.ver
From this, we understand that God’s revelation, both written and unwritten, has been preserved over the ages. This does not exclude that minor details might have been altered in the manuscripts of the Bible. Ultimately, the Church has the full deposit of revelation, so that not an iota of God’s revelation is lost.
Verbum
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EN2
Guest
The Bible has not been altered by the hands of man the Bible has more copies within a short time after jesus than all other ancient books combined. most of the new testament was written within a century after Jesus the frist within 30 years. This is astounding for the time remember this isn’t 21st century with the media. In this time most everything was passed down orally with extreem accuracy. We have many of the early writtings that match up almost identicall to the translations we have today and there are some that have gone back to the ancient greek and hebrew and translated with extreem care so not to tranlate it from another translation that was translated from another translation. Also we have the dead sea scrolls wich prove the accuracy of the old testament. The word of God has been passed down with extreme care by the power of the holy spirit.
John 1:1-2 In the beginning there was the word, and the word was with god and the word was god. He was in the beginning with God.
John 1:1-2 In the beginning there was the word, and the word was with god and the word was god. He was in the beginning with God.
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Ignatius
Guest
The original scriptures were passed down faithfully for thousands of years by the Jewish and Catholic transcribers.
However in modern times, yes, the King James version for instance is know to contain many errors. Also, a lot of the “modern language” versions are “creatively” intrepreted. For instance the Greek for works is interpreted as “works” in one place and changed conviently to “doing good” in others when it suites the leanings of the sect interpreting it.
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Steven_Merten
Guest
Hello godsent,
Jesus ends the Book of Revelation (and so the bible) with the warning quoted below. It is interesting that Jesus should give such a warning to those who might alter scriptures. It appears that Jesus believes scriptures could be altered by man.
NAB REV 22:18
I myself give witness to all who hear the prophetic words of this book. If anyone adds to these words, God will visit him with all the plagues described herein! If anyone takes from the words of this prophetic book, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city described here!
Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
Jesus ends the Book of Revelation (and so the bible) with the warning quoted below. It is interesting that Jesus should give such a warning to those who might alter scriptures. It appears that Jesus believes scriptures could be altered by man.
NAB REV 22:18
I myself give witness to all who hear the prophetic words of this book. If anyone adds to these words, God will visit him with all the plagues described herein! If anyone takes from the words of this prophetic book, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city described here!
Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
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theMutant
Guest
For a long period of time, the Latin Vulgate of St. Jerome was the earliest biblical text we had. In recent times, more ancient manuscripts containing fragments of Scripture have been found. In comparing the Vulgate to these, it has been shown that it is a very accurate translation.
Some people like to liken the translation of the Bible to the old game of telephone. However, there is a basic flaw in the comparrison. The Bible does not get translated based on just one previous copy. In the game of telephone, one tells two, two tells three, three tells four, etc. However, four cannot go back to check with one or two to see if the message is still accurate. In the case of the Bible, there are constant references made to previous copies and translations when making a new translation.
Have mistakes been made? Certainly. How do we know this? They have been found and removed! For example, there was a translation that rendered the commandment as “thou shalt commit adultery.” The point is that translations are not only made by reviewing past copies, once they are complete, they are reviewed again and again. The Bible is undoubtedly the most accurately translated set of documents in history.
Just take a look at the various modern translations of the Bible. You will find endless commentary on where mistakes have been made compared to the most ancient text. Just to name a few there is the Revised Standard Version - Catholic Edition (RSV-CE), the New Revised Standard Version (NRSV), and the New American Bible (NAB). The NAB is the text used in the English Liturgy and many think that it accurately translates the intent of the ancient texts even though it is not the most literal of translations.
You see my point? Flawed translations are caught and exposed. This is done today and has been done throughout the Church’s history. This is why we can be sure that, while corruptions can certainly appear in individual translations, this could never occur to the extent that we no longer have the original message of Scripture.
During the Reformation, there were lots of accusations by the Protestants that the Catholic Church was using an invalid Bible because the Church’s official version is the Latin Vulgate while the Protestants were using the Hebrew and Greek. However, as the Church pointed out, the Vulgate was not only a more ancient copy than the existing Hebrew and Greek of the time, but it was itself a direct translation of even more ancient Hebrew and Greek texts.
Some people like to liken the translation of the Bible to the old game of telephone. However, there is a basic flaw in the comparrison. The Bible does not get translated based on just one previous copy. In the game of telephone, one tells two, two tells three, three tells four, etc. However, four cannot go back to check with one or two to see if the message is still accurate. In the case of the Bible, there are constant references made to previous copies and translations when making a new translation.
Have mistakes been made? Certainly. How do we know this? They have been found and removed! For example, there was a translation that rendered the commandment as “thou shalt commit adultery.” The point is that translations are not only made by reviewing past copies, once they are complete, they are reviewed again and again. The Bible is undoubtedly the most accurately translated set of documents in history.
Just take a look at the various modern translations of the Bible. You will find endless commentary on where mistakes have been made compared to the most ancient text. Just to name a few there is the Revised Standard Version - Catholic Edition (RSV-CE), the New Revised Standard Version (NRSV), and the New American Bible (NAB). The NAB is the text used in the English Liturgy and many think that it accurately translates the intent of the ancient texts even though it is not the most literal of translations.
The RSV-CE is considered to be a very good translation but a “harder read” than the NAB. The NRSV is a seriously flawed translation - so bad that the Church forbids its use in the liturgies.
You see my point? Flawed translations are caught and exposed. This is done today and has been done throughout the Church’s history. This is why we can be sure that, while corruptions can certainly appear in individual translations, this could never occur to the extent that we no longer have the original message of Scripture.
During the Reformation, there were lots of accusations by the Protestants that the Catholic Church was using an invalid Bible because the Church’s official version is the Latin Vulgate while the Protestants were using the Hebrew and Greek. However, as the Church pointed out, the Vulgate was not only a more ancient copy than the existing Hebrew and Greek of the time, but it was itself a direct translation of even more ancient Hebrew and Greek texts.
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jasonfin
Guest
Can the Bible be corrupted? I feel, as soon as Scripture is separated from Tradition, it becomes corrupted. And this is coming from someone who is still somewhat a protestant/evangelical. I believe it was Eusebius of Cassera who spoke of any type of change or difference in interpretation that lead to corruption and heresy. So, if one departs from Tradition, then that is where corruption is able to creep in. I believe the only way to protect the Bible from corruption is through Tradition.
I think with a difference in language, there will always be some messy areas, but when one also ahs Tradition, I believe Scripture is safe.
By Tradition, I mean that authoritative teachings preserved and handed down by the apostles, Church Fathers, ect.
I think with a difference in language, there will always be some messy areas, but when one also ahs Tradition, I believe Scripture is safe.
By Tradition, I mean that authoritative teachings preserved and handed down by the apostles, Church Fathers, ect.
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Steven_Merten
Guest
Hello Jason,
Before we had 2000 years of Catholic tradition protecting the scriptures we use, there was 4000 years of Israelite tradition protecting scriptures we use. Jesus takes a look at the interaction of God authorized Church leader’s traditions interacting with scriptures.
NAB MAR 10:2Then some Pharisees came up and as a test began to ask him whether it was permissible for a husband to divorce his wife. In reply he said, "What command did Moses give you?** They answered, “Moses permitted divorce and the writing of a decree of divorce.” But Jesus told them: **"He wrote that commandment for you because of your stubbornness. At the beginning of creation God made them male and female; for this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and the two shall become as one. They are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore let no man separate what God has joined." Back in the house again, the disciples began to question him about this. He told them, “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her; and the woman who divorces her husband and marries another commits adultery.” NAB MAR 7:9
He went on to say: "You have made a fine art of setting aside God’s commandment in the interests of keeping your traditions! For example, Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and in another place, ‘Whoever curses father or mother shall be put to death.’ Yet you declare, If a person says to his father or mother, Any support you might have had from me is korban’ (that is, dedicated to God), you allow him to do nothing more for his father or mother. That is the way you nullify God’s word in favor of the traditions you have handed on."
Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
Before we had 2000 years of Catholic tradition protecting the scriptures we use, there was 4000 years of Israelite tradition protecting scriptures we use. Jesus takes a look at the interaction of God authorized Church leader’s traditions interacting with scriptures.
NAB MAR 10:2Then some Pharisees came up and as a test began to ask him whether it was permissible for a husband to divorce his wife. In reply he said, "What command did Moses give you?** They answered, “Moses permitted divorce and the writing of a decree of divorce.” But Jesus told them: **"He wrote that commandment for you because of your stubbornness. At the beginning of creation God made them male and female; for this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and the two shall become as one. They are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore let no man separate what God has joined." Back in the house again, the disciples began to question him about this. He told them, “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her; and the woman who divorces her husband and marries another commits adultery.” NAB MAR 7:9
He went on to say: "You have made a fine art of setting aside God’s commandment in the interests of keeping your traditions! For example, Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and in another place, ‘Whoever curses father or mother shall be put to death.’ Yet you declare, If a person says to his father or mother, Any support you might have had from me is korban’ (that is, dedicated to God), you allow him to do nothing more for his father or mother. That is the way you nullify God’s word in favor of the traditions you have handed on."
Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
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GregoryPalamas
Guest
This quotation applies to the Revelation Christ gave to St. John on the Isle of Patmos. It has no direct reference to the rest of Scripture. Nevertheless, we know that all Scripture is God breathed, ie., it is inspired by the Breath of God (Spiritu Sante) and as the Catechism states has been protected and faithfully handed down by the Church. The numerous textual varients notwithstanding no ancient text is as trustworthy as the text of Scripture.
Despite what the Muslims say, there are no original copies of the Qur’an either.
dan l
Steven Merten:
Despite what the Muslims say, there are no original copies of the Qur’an either.
dan l
Steven Merten:
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gomez_alqueza1
Guest
Yes, it is 100% true that bible been altered by the hands of man;;; because according to the books i’ve read that original scripture of bible is written in “aramites” language;;and so called the "forgotten/lost language. Nobody could translate that language, our bible today is translated from one person to another…
Only God knows what exactly written to the original bible.
Only God knows what exactly written to the original bible.
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theMutant
Guest
Ah, but you’re neglecting the fact that, even if the claims of these books are correct, the intermediary translations (Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek) were made by those who could do such translations and this is where your reason for believing that it has been altered doesn’t stand the test.
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