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Christphr
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Has the Church (clerics and lay people) in the developed West been overly influenced by the pursuit of wealth?
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Has the Church in the developed West been overly influenced by wealth?
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pianistclare
Guest
What do you mean?
The Church doesn’t exactly pursue wealth.
Do you mean in centuries past when CAtholicism was the religion of past monarchies?
The Church doesn’t exactly pursue wealth.
Do you mean in centuries past when CAtholicism was the religion of past monarchies?
C
Christphr
Guest
Pope Francis gives us the example of his living in essentially a hotel room and driving in a cheap car. Surely that is a message not just for clerics. He has said often that he wants a church for the poor.
Why is he sending this message? Who is he’s speaking to with his ways?
Why is he sending this message? Who is he’s speaking to with his ways?
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pianistclare
Guest
Why would you think its aimed at clerics only? The Pope is the Shepherd of everyone.He’s talking to you and I. Be frugal, don’t be attached to material thing, share you wealth. Take care of one another.
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tweedlealice
Guest
Dear Christophr,
The first church had none. How it survived is a miracle. Martyrdom was the path. A strong belief in resurrection and going home to the Father for eternity was the selling point.
As the church grew and was synced w Monarchs, money accumulated. The church bought lands.
Massive Cathedrals were built to glorify a God. But, we are the church, Jesus wanted to multiply.,
It was rumored that some of bad Popes built the greatest Cathedrals.,
Money definitely was interested in money. Church needs money for upkeep of Churches. Money needed for evangelization of ppl. (For missions).
Money needed for religious order upkeep.
Donation sale short for electric bills, etc.
NEED MONEY. Greed and Corruption will always be present involving money. (JUDAS).
In Christ’s love
Tweedlealice
The first church had none. How it survived is a miracle. Martyrdom was the path. A strong belief in resurrection and going home to the Father for eternity was the selling point.
As the church grew and was synced w Monarchs, money accumulated. The church bought lands.
Massive Cathedrals were built to glorify a God. But, we are the church, Jesus wanted to multiply.,
It was rumored that some of bad Popes built the greatest Cathedrals.,
Money definitely was interested in money. Church needs money for upkeep of Churches. Money needed for evangelization of ppl. (For missions).
Money needed for religious order upkeep.
Donation sale short for electric bills, etc.
NEED MONEY. Greed and Corruption will always be present involving money. (JUDAS).
In Christ’s love
Tweedlealice
Money is just a tool. Like a hammer or a car or a laptop. You can use it for bad or good. The Church needs money to function. That’s just a fact. It can use that money to evangelise, help the poor, and build churches to glorify God. We should be relatively detached from material possesions but also we should use them as necessary.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
The Pope is just trying to get all of us to be cognizant of poor people and to try to live a simpler lifestyle.
One of the things to keep in mind is that in some areas in USA, just buying a reasonably sized house for your family or paying rent on a normal sized apartment costs a huge amount of money because of the demand for housing. If you own a home, the maintenance and upkeep on it is also going to be pricey; there are some things, like updating the plumbing system or putting on a new roof, that most of us cannot do as a DIY. Health care in USA can also be very expensive, especially for any sort of chronic condition or long-term care, and also a college for your children. Some people may also wish to send their children to a private school (maybe even Catholic school) if they think that is best for their child, and those schools can also cost a lot of money. If you wish to help your child develop their talents and also have a better chance of getting into a good college, you also may need to pay extra for them to play sports, have dancing or music lessons, etc. Many people also think the ability to travel is important for broadening their world view and appreciating cultures outside their own backyard, and this also costs money.
The folks I know in USA who are “pursuing wealth” these days are primarily seeking to be able to provide these types of benefits for themselves and their families, not buy every material status good in sight.
One of the things to keep in mind is that in some areas in USA, just buying a reasonably sized house for your family or paying rent on a normal sized apartment costs a huge amount of money because of the demand for housing. If you own a home, the maintenance and upkeep on it is also going to be pricey; there are some things, like updating the plumbing system or putting on a new roof, that most of us cannot do as a DIY. Health care in USA can also be very expensive, especially for any sort of chronic condition or long-term care, and also a college for your children. Some people may also wish to send their children to a private school (maybe even Catholic school) if they think that is best for their child, and those schools can also cost a lot of money. If you wish to help your child develop their talents and also have a better chance of getting into a good college, you also may need to pay extra for them to play sports, have dancing or music lessons, etc. Many people also think the ability to travel is important for broadening their world view and appreciating cultures outside their own backyard, and this also costs money.
The folks I know in USA who are “pursuing wealth” these days are primarily seeking to be able to provide these types of benefits for themselves and their families, not buy every material status good in sight.
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stpurl
Guest
Pope Francis? is he the only Pope who has ever lived ‘modestly’? Are you accusing all the Popes before him who didn’t live in a hotel room or drive a cheap car of 'pursuing wealth?"
Did you know that Pope John Paul II’s will showed that he had virtually no possessions of his own beyond his books and papers?
Do you think that Pope Benedict, Pope Paul VI etc went out and spent their money, snatched from ‘the poor’ to buy expensive toys and trinkets and clothing and cars?
Ever see what Pope Emeritus Benedict wears, or wore when he was Pope, outside of state functions (where the clothing and accessories were either handed down from donations made without asking by people who offered them free out of love for God and respect for his people who NEED beauty): A plain white cassock.
Same with all the other Popes.
And the 'wealth of the Vatican" is barely enough income yearly to fund Princeton in the U.S. Things like paintings and statues were gifts for the whole people of God, for whom the Church holds it in trust.
Do you think that poor people don’t deserve to look at beauty? That craftspeople who might have eaten meat at each meal but chose to say eat meat only once a week so that the money that would have gone for the meat went for the supplies for a gift of art, or a gift of service, were forced into it?
Don’t you think it’s kind of insulting to imply that the poor are just objects, that we throw bread and a few coins to keep them from being hungry for food or shelter, but they don’t need to have the ‘luxuries’ we do of appreciating art?
That the poor, being poor and not having ‘money’, can’t give anything themselves?
That like the widow who gave only a few coins, but deprived herself thereby perhaps of having ‘sufficient’ food and instead made do with only a little, the poor need to be able to ‘give of themselves’ as well, lest they be made to feel useless?
Pope Francis, just like every other Pope reminds us of our need to serve the poor, but it isn’t simply the ‘poor in material wealth’, it’s the poor in spirit as well. He’s not calling out his predecessors or indicting ‘The Western World’ or implying that everybody in such is just pursuing wealth, any more than Benedict or St. John Paul were encouraging people to ‘live large’ (ever read what they had to say about economic conditions? For heaven’s sake, haven’t you read the 19th century Rerum Novarum?)
Did you know that Pope John Paul II’s will showed that he had virtually no possessions of his own beyond his books and papers?
Do you think that Pope Benedict, Pope Paul VI etc went out and spent their money, snatched from ‘the poor’ to buy expensive toys and trinkets and clothing and cars?
Ever see what Pope Emeritus Benedict wears, or wore when he was Pope, outside of state functions (where the clothing and accessories were either handed down from donations made without asking by people who offered them free out of love for God and respect for his people who NEED beauty): A plain white cassock.
Same with all the other Popes.
And the 'wealth of the Vatican" is barely enough income yearly to fund Princeton in the U.S. Things like paintings and statues were gifts for the whole people of God, for whom the Church holds it in trust.
Do you think that poor people don’t deserve to look at beauty? That craftspeople who might have eaten meat at each meal but chose to say eat meat only once a week so that the money that would have gone for the meat went for the supplies for a gift of art, or a gift of service, were forced into it?
Don’t you think it’s kind of insulting to imply that the poor are just objects, that we throw bread and a few coins to keep them from being hungry for food or shelter, but they don’t need to have the ‘luxuries’ we do of appreciating art?
That the poor, being poor and not having ‘money’, can’t give anything themselves?
That like the widow who gave only a few coins, but deprived herself thereby perhaps of having ‘sufficient’ food and instead made do with only a little, the poor need to be able to ‘give of themselves’ as well, lest they be made to feel useless?
Pope Francis, just like every other Pope reminds us of our need to serve the poor, but it isn’t simply the ‘poor in material wealth’, it’s the poor in spirit as well. He’s not calling out his predecessors or indicting ‘The Western World’ or implying that everybody in such is just pursuing wealth, any more than Benedict or St. John Paul were encouraging people to ‘live large’ (ever read what they had to say about economic conditions? For heaven’s sake, haven’t you read the 19th century Rerum Novarum?)
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