Has there ever been a case in the Bible and/or in general history of a case like this?

[roseproject]

…Where the sins of a human or perhaps multiple humans caused strange phenomina on the physical, natural world…?

Yes, this is a strange question…but I’m asking because, depending on the answer of this question, it may help me get out of a plot hole in the story I’m writing

In short, there is a vital plot point in my story where, in a certain place in my story’s world, monstrous acts of hatred where committed long ago…so much so, that the veil between hell and earth thinned in that place…and began to cause strange phenomina of a physical and supernatural nature…bad things, not to spoil anything…(also, this is still a developing concept in my story so…yep ). Is this at all compatible with our theology or do you think it is too far-fetched? Your thoughts?

Thanks in advance

 

[Neoplatonist]

Oh, I sure hope not. Seems like an unfair danger to innocents who happen through that area. Does sound like basic horror movie axiom, though (the house where x or y was burned to death, the ancient sacrificial altar, etc…)

Yep, there goes my chance at falling asleep tonight.

 

[Neofight]

…Where the sins of a human or perhaps multiple humans caused strange phenomina on the physical, natural world…?

Yes, this is a strange question…but I’m asking because, depending on the answer of this question, it may help me get out of a plot hole in the story I’m writing

In short, there is a vital plot point in my story where, in a certain place in my story’s world, monstrous acts of hatred where committed long ago…so much so, that the veil between hell and earth thinned in that place…and began to cause strange phenomina of a physical and supernatural nature…bad things, not to spoil anything…(also, this is still a developing concept in my story so…yep ). Is this at all compatible with our theology or do you think it is too far-fetched? Your thoughts?

Thanks in advance

Sounds like Genesis 6 through 8.

 

[roseproject]

Oh, I sure hope not. Seems like an unfair danger to innocents who happen through that area. Does sound like basic horror movie axiom, though (the house where x or y was burned to death, the ancient sacrificial altar, etc…)

Yep, there goes my chance at falling asleep tonight.

Hehehe It does sound like a horror type story when I describe it like that, but my story isn’t so much about ghosts and demons (…well, probably a bit of the latter), but…basically the whole physical nature of that place I mentioned becomes “infected” so to speak, with the sins of the people there…or perhaps because of the close union with Hell in that place? I’m not too sure at this point But the, “infected” state of this place causes deadly effects on whoever set foot there…so yeah

 

[seagal]

I don’t believe that acts themselves have any power be become somehow tangible. Sounds too much like karma. But if you’re writing a fantasy story, go for it. Anything can happen in fiction after all.

BTW, I just finished reading a book called The Rosie Project. Is that the inspiration behind your user name?

 

[roseproject]

BTW, I just finished reading a book called The Rosie Project. Is that the inspiration behind your user name?

Nope. It’s actually an old pen-name of mine

 

[roseproject]

I don’t believe that acts themselves have any power be become somehow tangible.

I was thinking, how about the earthquake and all the strange phenomina that occures after Jesus died on the cross? Or was all that a purely supernatural occurence?

 

[ChainBreaker]

…Where the sins of a human or perhaps multiple humans caused strange phenomina on the physical, natural world…?

Yes, this is a strange question…but I’m asking because, depending on the answer of this question, it may help me get out of a plot hole in the story I’m writing

In short, there is a vital plot point in my story where, in a certain place in my story’s world, monstrous acts of hatred where committed long ago…so much so, that the veil between hell and earth thinned in that place…and began to cause strange phenomina of a physical and supernatural nature…bad things, not to spoil anything…(also, this is still a developing concept in my story so…yep ). Is this at all compatible with our theology or do you think it is too far-fetched? Your thoughts?

Thanks in advance

Evil attracts demonic forces, much like a playground school fight attracts spectators, so i don’t think it’s incompatible. You define this phenomena as a “thinning” between to planes of existence. Is it realistic or not? I don’t think it matters as it can function as an analogy of something that really happens.

The real question is whether you can make it interesting because similar ideas have been written in books before.

I like it:thumbsup:

 

[ChainBreaker]

Sarah goes to visit a priest to find an explanation.

Sarah: Hello father Thomas, why is this happening

Father Thomas: Evil attracts demonic forces, much like a playground school fight attracts spectators. Its called the “Thinning”.

 

[3DOCTORS]

Another possible reading source for your research would be materials written by legitimate and reputable Catholic exorcists regarding the various demonic activities and phenomena.

I’ve often wondered what it would be like to tour a place like Auschwitz or the memorial to the Rwandan genocide - honestly I don’t think I could handle it. I wonder if there’s something “there” in such places that a person can almost feel, the collective weight of all the evil, the suffering, the emotions. I’d venture to say yes.

 

[GEddie]

Another possible reading source for your research would be materials written by legitimate and reputable Catholic exorcists regarding the various demonic activities and phenomena.

I’ve often wondered what it would be like to tour a place like Auschwitz or the memorial to the Rwandan genocide - honestly I don’t think I could handle it. I wonder if there’s something “there” in such places that a person can almost feel, the collective weight of all the evil, the suffering, the emotions. I’d venture to say yes.

I was at Dachau ten years ago. Not Auschwitz, but part of the same history.

While I had been concerned that I would sense something such as described, nothing like that registered on me anyhow. ISTM that the passage of time can indeed wash such things away.

ICXC NIKA

 

[roseproject]

Sarah goes to visit a priest to find an explanation.

Sarah: Hello father Thomas, why is this happening

Father Thomas: Evil attracts demonic forces, much like a playground school fight attracts spectators. Its called the “Thinning”.

What’s this quote from?

 

[Bob_Crowley]

…Where the sins of a human or perhaps multiple humans caused strange phenomina on the physical, natural world…?

Yes, this is a strange question…but I’m asking because, depending on the answer of this question, it may help me get out of a plot hole in the story I’m writing

In short, there is a vital plot point in my story where, in a certain place in my story’s world, monstrous acts of hatred where committed long ago…so much so, that the veil between hell and earth thinned in that place…and began to cause strange phenomina of a physical and supernatural nature…bad things, not to spoil anything…(also, this is still a developing concept in my story so…yep ). Is this at all compatible with our theology or do you think it is too far-fetched? Your thoughts?

Thanks in advance

About the only thing I can think of is the Black Death. If the following link is correct, the hordes of Genghis Khan brought the plague with them to the Crimea. From there Genoese seamen took the plague to Italy, and from there it spread to other places.

We tend to think of the Black Death as European, but it started in Asia, and probably did just as much damage there as it did in Europe. But the European incident is better chronicled.

I suppose you could make a case for the violence of a ruthless invader spreading a deadly disease, and the flow on effects of that. But that happens in every war - in most wars more people are killed by disease, hunger and privation that by the actual violence itself.

For example William Shirer wrote in his book, “The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich” that in the 100 years following Luther, Germany’s population fell from around 16 million to about 6 million, due to the wars and violence that besieged Germany. But a lot of those deaths would have been attributable to the fact that the things that normally sustain life were no longer available, and not just the violence.

I assume you’re writing a story or novel. If you want to make a case like this, you’re probably better to stick to a disease or pandemic due to the effects of an evil invader imposing war on the citizenry.

asianhistory.about.com/od/asianenvironmentalhistory/p/Black-Death-In-Asia-Bubonic-Plague.htm

The Mongols Spread Plague at Kaffa:

In 1344, the Golden Horde decided to recapture the Crimean port city of Kaffa from the Genoese, Italian traders who had taken the town in the late 1200s. The Mongols under Jani Beg instituted a siege, which lasted until 1347, when reinforcements from further east brought the plague to the Mongol lines.

An Italian lawyer, Gabriele de Mussis, recorded what happened next: “The whole army was affected by a disease which overran the Tartars [Mongols] and killed thousands upon thousands every day.” He goes on to charge that the Mongol leader “ordered corpses to be placed in catapults and lobbed into the city in hopes that the intolerable stench would kill everyone inside.”

This incident is often cited as the first instance of biological warfare in history. However, other contemporary chroniclers make no mention of the putative Black Death catapults. A French churchman, Gilles li Muisis, notes that a “calamitous disease befell the Tartar army, and the mortality was so great and widespread that scarcely one in twenty of them remained alive.” However, he depicts the Mongol survivors as surprised when the Christians in Kaffa also came down with the disease.

Regardless of how it played out in fact, the Golden Horde’s siege of Kaffa certainly did drive refugees to flee on ships, bound for Genoa. These refugees likely were a primary source of the Black Death that went on to decimate Europe.

The Plague Reaches the Middle East:

European observers were fascinated but not too worried when the Black Death struck the western rim of Central Asia and the Middle East. One recorded that “India was depopulated; Tartary, Mesopotamia, Syria, Armenia were covered with dead bodies; the Kurds fled in vain to the mountains.” However, they would soon become participants rather than observers in the world’s worst pandemic.

In “The Travels of Ibn Battuta,” the great traveler noted that as of 1345, “the number that died daily in Damascus [Syria] had been two thousand,” but the people were able to defeat the plague through prayer. In 1349, the holy city of Mecca was hit by the plague, likely brought in by infected pilgrims on the hajj.

The Moroccan historian Ibn Khaldun, whose parents died of the plague, wrote about the outbreak this way: “Civilization both in the East and the West was visited by a destructive plague which devastated nations and caused populations to vanish. It swallowed up many of the good things of civilization and wiped them out… Civilization decreased with the decrease of mankind. Cities and buildings were laid waste, roads and way signs were obliterated, settlements and mansions became empty, dynasties and tribes grew weak. The entire inhabited world changed.”

 

[MrSnaith]

You’re wondering about phenomena in relation to evil. Aside from human activity, I see there as being five kinds of phenomena you can consider as being in some way disrupted:

1. Natural - we’ll define this as pertaining to naturally occurring events, like tornados, volcanos, blizzards, hurricanes, lightning storms, gales, deluges, earthquakes, etc.
2. Vegetative - we’ll define this as pertaining to vegetative life, like trees, ferns, vines, mosses, shrubs, fruits, vegetables, seeds, grains, etc.
3. Animal - we’ll define this as pertaining to animal life… self explanatory I think.
4. Microscopic - we’ll define this as pertaining to microscopic life, including germs, bacteria, molds… essentially anything that can invade your body and cause disease, disorder, virus, etc.
5. Supernatural - we’ll define this as pertaining to spirits, which will include demons, possibly angels if that’s the direction you want to take, the saints in heaven, and souls in purgatory.

To get some creative ideas flowing, you can consider some examples of the above categories:

1. Natural - the “thinning” effect produces unexplained violent lightning, in the absence of wind, cloud, rain, or any normal elements that accompany a thunderstorm.
2. Vegetative - the “thinning” effect causes trees to bleed red blood, and to “wail” as though wind was blowing through their branches, even when not even the slightest breeze is present.
3. Animal - the “thinning” effect causes animals to behave unnaturally, such as wolves hopping around like hares, or horses becoming aggressively carnivorous.
4. Microscopic - the “thinning” effect causes new kinds of viruses and diseases, such as a virus that alters the brain’s vocative capacities such that a person infected with it unknowingly skips every second word that they speak.
5. Supernatural - the “thinning” effect causes souls in purgatory to unwittingly take possession of the bodies of children.

I hope that’s enough to get those creative juices flowing.

Have fun!

 

[Lion_IRC]

…Where the sins of a human or perhaps multiple humans caused strange phenomina on the physical, natural world…?

Yes, this is a strange question…but I’m asking because, depending on the answer of this question, it may help me get out of a plot hole in the story I’m writing

In short, there is a vital plot point in my story where, in a certain place in my story’s world, monstrous acts of hatred where committed long ago…so much so, that the veil between hell and earth thinned in that place…and began to cause strange phenomina of a physical and supernatural nature…bad things, not to spoil anything…(also, this is still a developing concept in my story so…yep ). Is this at all compatible with our theology or do you think it is too far-fetched? Your thoughts?

Thanks in advance

Would the plagues visited upon a sinful Pharaoh qualify? (Exodus 7)

http://thediligentwoman.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Moses-10-PlaguesW250.jpg

 

[roseproject]

Would the plagues visited upon a sinful Pharaoh qualify? (Exodus 7)

http://thediligentwoman.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Moses-10-PlaguesW250.jpg

Well, those were inflicted by the hand of God pretty much (right?); it was a more supernatural phenomena then something that would normally happen if a series of events took place; in other words, it wasn’t something that would normally happen in a regular circumstance if A and B were put together.

So, not exactly what I’m looking for.

 

[ChainBreaker]

What’s this quote from?

Nowhere, I just made it up.

 

[Lion_IRC]

Hi roseproject,

Sorry the Pharaoh thing wasnt right for you.

You mentioned the sins of a human and some sort of relationship between the sin and strange phenomena on the physical, natural world… that followed.

I’m interested in how these strange phenomena would come about if not by supernatural agency.

 

[roseproject]

Nowhere, I just made it up.

Oh haha

 

[roseproject]

Hi roseproject,

Sorry the Pharaoh thing wasnt right for you.

You mentioned the sins of a human and some sort of relationship between the sin and strange phenomena on the physical, natural world… that followed.

I’m interested in how these strange phenomena would come about if not by supernatural agency.

Perhaps, the veil between hell and earth is so thin in that place, that the demonic realm and the realm of earth…and all the natural things on that part of earth, begin to intermingle and mix to create terrible manifestations of a more physical kind…? That’s the train of thought I’ve been taking lately…I still kind of feel that this solution doesn’t feel complete enough though, imo. Like, what do the sins of the humans that caused this to happen have to do with the things manifesting in that place? Or is it just demonic activity causing all of it? I really don’t want it to purely be the latter because the idea of the “manifestations” in that part of the earth are sopposed to kind of illustrate the destructive power and ugliness of human hatred.

It can be difficult to create a story with fantastical events while at the same time, taking place in the real world and featuring real religions and their philosophies. It isn’t impossible, just really tricky ^^’