Have things where you are changed since the MP took effect?

[Jakub]

So, you know exactly what you are to receive and how much before Mass ?

Amazing…

And we are off topic again…

Pax

 

[Godi]

Considering there has only been one Sunday-obligation mass since the MP took effect on Sept. 14, I have to think it’s still to early to tell anything. That said, my parish’s mass last Sunday was pretty good, although I have no reason to think (thus far) that it was because of the reemergence of the TLM.

My Parish is deciding which of its Sunday Masses will be the Extraordinary Mass. Right now it is the 11am Sunday Mass along with some feast days, such as the Veneration of the Cross etc. I have heard whispers that it’s too long (how are they going to stand an eternity of praising God) to I cann’t understand it (and don’t want to). You would think that maybe that last complaint is due to the present day education system and maybe todays IQ is maybe lower than the past thousand years. But the ones complaining are the OLDER Catholics. The younger Catholics make up most of the Extraordinary Mass attendence. We have at the least 12 Altar boys at these Masses.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

So, you know exactly what you are to receive and how much before Mass ?

Amazing…

And we are off topic again…

Pax

No (and quantifying anything would be an exercise in the ludicrous, as we both knew, I suspect, before you interjected it, Ie, I think you know that isn’t what I meant), but I think that there is supposed to be a deliberate tension between the “vertical” and the “horizontal” that people talk about, like the string of an instrument. I readily grant that there has been far to much attention to the horizontal, but that does not mean that the horizontal is of no consequence.

 

[THurifer2]

It will take more than a Generation for things to get straightend out in my diocese. Modernism has crept into all levels of the diocesan chancery etc. It has been an eye opener taking classes at the lay ministry institute. In fact it is pretty scary.

 

[Godi]

It will take more than a Generation for things to get straightend out in my diocese. Modernism has crept into all levels of the diocesan chancery etc. It has been an eye opener taking classes at the lay ministry institute. In fact it is pretty scary.

Modernism? It is called AMERCANISM & this was condemned in 1899 by Pope Leo XIII. Amercanism stated that the Catholic Church should adapt its teaching to the surrounding culture.

 

[Jakub]

My brother JKirk,

I must confess that my opinions and observations are quite different than the everyday layman, five years of studying, praying and worship via our Eastern brethern plus monastics has made a profound change on how I look at everything.

I meant no harm…

Pax

james

 

[JKirkLVNV]

My brother JKirk,

I must confess that my opinions and observations are quite different than the everyday layman, five years of studying, praying and worship via our Eastern brethern plus monastics has made a profound change on how I look at everything.

I meant no harm…

Pax

james

That’s quite alright. I became a Catholic in the rarified air of a Carmelite monastery. It rather spoils regular parish liturgical life.

 

[otjm]

And there are multitudes of people who simply stopped going to Mass altogether because they couldn’t bear the radical changes and novelties that crept in. Neither are they few and far between. So I am equally sorry that you cannot understand how someone would not fall in love with the new Mass.

Please get over your attitutde. I said nothing at all about anyone falling in love with the EF or in any way indicated that I had a problem understanding it. I was responding to someone who appears to think that everyone would fall in love with it if exposed; and in fact, there are many who prefer the OF.

And as to all the talk about the multitudes who “simply stopped going”, I am still waiting to actually see numbers, or a survey showing why people stopped going. I work with people returning to the Church; I talk with others who likewise are involved with those who have left. The four largest reasons given are sexual activity outside of marriage, divorce and remarriage without annulment, catechesis issues (either failure to learn of what the Church really teaches, or learning what the Church teaches but making no connection to daily life - head knowledge without a faith committment) and anger over what someone said (usually a priest or nun) somehwere in the past. Change in rubrics just doesn’t hit the radar; and if there were so many, and they are now in their 60’s of 70’s or 80’s, one would think that they would be coming back if for no other reason than they are a lot closer to death than they though they were 30 years ago.

 

[otjm]

My Parish is deciding which of its Sunday Masses will be the Extraordinary Mass. Right now it is the 11am Sunday Mass along with some feast days, such as the Veneration of the Cross etc. I have heard whispers that it’s too long (how are they going to stand an eternity of praising God) to I cann’t understand it (and don’t want to). You would think that maybe that last complaint is due to the present day education system and maybe todays IQ is maybe lower than the past thousand years. But the ones complaining are the OLDER Catholics. The younger Catholics make up most of the Extraordinary Mass attendence. We have at the least 12 Altar boys at these Masses.

Having attended the TLM for 20+ years, and having seen or been involved with low Masses, high Masses, and solemn high Masses, I find soem of the commentary interesting as to what people are attending now. 12 altar servers? At a solemn high Mass (Christmas and Easter only), we had 6 candle bearers, two servers, one thurifer and one MC, a subdeacon, a deacon and a priest.

For the Sunday high Mass we had 2 altar servers. anthing beyond that was not a necessity. There was no incense needed (although there was for funerals, as well as a cross bearer). It sounds like we are getting hybrids already.

 

[brigid12]

Modernism? It is called AMERCANISM & this was condemned in 1899 by Pope Leo XIII. Amercanism stated that the Catholic Church should adapt its teaching to the surrounding culture.

My diocese has been hit really hard with it, too!

 

[Catholic_Dude]

And as to all the talk about the multitudes who “simply stopped going”, I am still waiting to actually see numbers, or a survey showing why people stopped going. I work with people returning to the Church; I talk with others who likewise are involved with those who have left. The four largest reasons given are sexual activity outside of marriage, divorce and remarriage without annulment, catechesis issues (either failure to learn of what the Church really teaches, or learning what the Church teaches but making no connection to daily life - head knowledge without a faith committment) and anger over what someone said (usually a priest or nun) somehwere in the past. Change in rubrics just doesn’t hit the radar; and if there were so many, and they are now in their 60’s of 70’s or 80’s, one would think that they would be coming back if for no other reason than they are a lot closer to death than they though they were 30 years ago.

I have heard on EWTN multiple times that the largest reasons why people leave the Church is because of divorce and contraception.

I would like to see some ‘hard’ data regarding those who left because of liturgical issues. I do believe many were deeply hurt by the changes, especially in parishes where liturgical abuse took a strong hold, but abandoning their faith is simply overboard in my opinion.