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Mr_Freeze
Guest
I never have. I know some people that have had 2…
Have you heard of the church NOT granting an annulment? Post VII of course
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Melchior_1
Guest
Why the “post VII” qualifier? Also, in the people you know who that have two of them, are you aware of any/all events that could have impacted the validity of their Sacrament?
I have heard of people who have not been granted annulments.
I have heard of people who have not been granted annulments.
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Mr_Freeze
Guest
Why do you care? It’s a simple question. Either answer or don’t. I see you eventually did…so OK.
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Vico
Guest
Yes, posted on CAF before “according to the deacon who is the liaison with the marriage tribunal for our deanery (group of several local parishes) about 40 percent of cases that must go through the full investigation and judgement, and appeal, of the process are denied.”
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Melchior_1
Guest
I simply don’t see why you’d place the qualifier. Unless you are going to push an agenda along the lines of “since Vatican II there’s been more annulments”, which at that point it’d be better if you just outright said it.
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Mr_Freeze
Guest
Well, you are seeing problems where they don’t exist. My reason is simply that VII happened a loong time ago and anyone who would have an adult perspective on this question from that era is probably already dead…
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Debbie_Kono
Guest
My mother tried in 1964/65 after my father walked out on us. The Church would not even allow her to petition it. I divorced in 1994 (I wasn’t a practicing Catholic at all and didn’t even understand the ramifications of divorce). I “remarried” a Protestant man in 2000 and got “saved”. He also had been divorced. After living as a Protestant for about 10 years I seriously started to wonder which “denomination” had it right. I stumbled on some Traditional Catholic websites and I was a goner. My “husband” put in very little effort to petition for his annulment and he was denied. So he divorced me. I truly believe God was protecting me, as there were no grounds for his annulment. My marriage was declared null…but because of the high rates of “granted” annulments, I’m not certain of the legitimacy of mine either.
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Melchior_1
Guest
The tribunal which declares the nullity has the authority to do so. If they declared it null, then it’s null.
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Debbie_Kono
Guest
I understand what you are saying. But I also know that some dioceses in the US have upwards of 90% of petitions being declared null. The non-Catholic world says annulments are nothing more than Catholic divorce…and it seems that now a days they would be right. Believe you me…I don’t like being alone and if I thought for one minute there was nothing nefarious going on within the Church regarding divorce/remarriage/annulments…I would be dating in hopes of marriage.
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Mr_Freeze
Guest
Ok…
Your first marriage was annulled, but your second husband’s first marriage was Not?
Your first marriage was annulled, but your second husband’s first marriage was Not?
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Melchior_1
Guest
I understand the concern. That said, who cares about other dioceses? What matters is yours. And at the end of the day, if your marriage was found to be null by a competent tribunal and then formally declared null, then it’s null. Period. Fin.
For this reason (or for other reasons that render the marriage null and void) the Church, after an examination of the situation by the competent ecclesiastical tribunal, can declare the nullity of a marriage, i.e., that the marriage never existed. In this case the contracting parties are free to marry, provided the natural obligations of a previous union are discharged.
- Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC 1629)
If you don’t trust the tribunal, then talk to your Bishop about your concerns. But if your marriage was formally declared null, then I don’t see what the problem is.
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Debbie_Kono
Guest
Yes. Keep in mind, he was a Protestant and was not happy to say the least about my conversion. He truly put in almost zero effort on his annulment because he didn’t agree with the “merciless” Catholic Church and didn’t want to “jump the hoops” for something Protestants don’t believe in.
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Melchior_1
Guest
I need to apologize for my tone. I think I’m coming across as a bit hostile, so please accept my apologies.
If I may, I want to look at this a bit more closely to see why your marriages were declared null.
Your second marriage is almost double null, because I’m assuming you didn’t get a dispensation and he didn’t get an annulment from his first marriage. In this case, however, a double negative doesn’t make a positive
Assuming you were baptized Catholic at the time of your first marriage, it seems to me that you had a slam dunk case of both of your marriages being null. I wouldn’t be shocked if the turnaround on your marriages being declared null was really quick due to the lack of form in both cases (plus your second husband not receiving an annulment on his first marriage).
Again, assuming you were baptized Catholic before the first marriage.
If I may, I want to look at this a bit more closely to see why your marriages were declared null.
If you were baptized Catholic and got married outside of the Catholic church without proper dispensations, then this wasn’t a valid marriage (ie; null).
Again, if you did not receive proper dispensation to get married outside of the Catholic church, the marriage isn’t valid (ie; null).
Not only was the marriage possibly not valid due to lack of dispensation, but if he had a previous valid marriage that wasn’t declared null before marrying you, then the marriage with him wasn’t valid (ie; null).
Your second marriage is almost double null, because I’m assuming you didn’t get a dispensation and he didn’t get an annulment from his first marriage. In this case, however, a double negative doesn’t make a positive
Assuming you were baptized Catholic at the time of your first marriage, it seems to me that you had a slam dunk case of both of your marriages being null. I wouldn’t be shocked if the turnaround on your marriages being declared null was really quick due to the lack of form in both cases (plus your second husband not receiving an annulment on his first marriage).
Again, assuming you were baptized Catholic before the first marriage.
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Mr_Freeze
Guest
Debbie. I agree 100% with your statements. I feel your pain. I got an annulment in 05. I went through the process as honestly as I could. I don’t know if my ex did anything at all. So…there you go.
Church says null. Any nefariousness is on them, not me.
I got remarried and am happily continuing on with my faith and life with a clear conscience.
Would I have had that chance in 1965? I dunno, but who cares?
Church says null. Any nefariousness is on them, not me.
I got remarried and am happily continuing on with my faith and life with a clear conscience.
Would I have had that chance in 1965? I dunno, but who cares?
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Melchior_1
Guest
This is important, actually. When one party makes the effort and the other doesn’t, you’d think that would show some fundamental issues within the marriage. Specifically, one of the parties clearly had no intention of standing with the Church since they wouldn’t be following or investing in the proper process.
Exactly. Competent authority said yes, so there’s nothing to worry about.
Congratulations
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almost2
Guest
Yes Alvin glombowski . and it didn’t matter . because it doesn’t matter. Unless you die in this rebellion.
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jfz178
Guest
Just to answer the OP’s question, the late Senator Ted Kennedy was initially granted an annulment, but it was reversed by the Vatican when his ex-wife appealed. So that is one high-profile example of an annulment not granted.
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7_Sorrows
Guest
I know of someone from my church who was not granted an annulment.
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Debbie_Kono
Guest
No need to apologize. I don’t believe you were hostile at all.
Both me and my husband were baptized Catholic and did marry in the Church. But it is my understanding that no matter where baptized people are married it is valid. Or at least indissoluble. Same goes for non-baptized persons…the marriage is not sacramental, but natural and also indissoluble. So I thought.
I know my “second marriage” was invalid because I wasn’t free to marry.
But thanks for your thoughts and apology. God Bless.
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Debbie_Kono
Guest
I am happy for you Mr. Freeze. If I were in your shoes I would have a clear conscience also. If I had had my annulment earlier than 2015 perhaps I would be certain too. Knowing what shape the Church is in today, I don’t have the warm fuzzies. And truly I am fine with either waiting for a clear sign from God or remaining single. My “second husband” is who introduced me to Christ, so I suppose I have a loyalty to him…I just hope that God doesn’t deem that loyalty disordered.
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