Having... trouble... with Facebook. Advice please?

[Luna_de_Colores]

I’m a little distressed right now so this might be long… sorry! If someone could actually read though this and help me out, I would be extremely grateful. I don’t know where else to go.

I’ll start at the beginning…

On my Facebook, I’m friends with some atheist/non-catholic/liberal people. I’ve blocked the feed from a few of them who are pretty intense, and a few others I don’t mind as much. (I also have a lot of catholic friend as well.)

Anyways, I usually stick to posting funny, light comments and pictures. As you can imagine, my views are a lot different than some of my internet friends. Sometimes I share/write “catholic” posts, but to be honest they are not challenging, usually just a picture of a pretty church or something.

Recently, after my confirmation, I’ve gotten a little bolder. With the election and marriage re-definition, I’ve become to start sharing “controversial” posts, such as “marriage=one man + one woman”, atheists memes or protestant rebuttals, ect. I haven’t gone overboard or nuts, just reached out a little more and included some posts on what I do believe in.

The problem began when I shared a post about gay “marriage”. This time, someone challenged me about it and asked me some questions.

I got scared and upset that people disagreed, and started to cry. Then I started to feel guilty that I’d had that response. Which made me even more upset. Then I got upset that I was upset. Then I got angry at myself, which didn’t help at all!

I stepped back and prayed about it. I said the divine mercy chaplet (twice) and asked my patron saint, Maximilian Kolbe, about it. Later, after I’d calmed down, I was able to write out a nice, polite and (hopefully) loving response. I looked up some sources about it on Catholic Answers. (I think it was pretty well-written, but now I’m having second doubts.)

The next day I took it to my regular Eucharistic adoration. Not the Facebook issue exactly, but I my cowardliness. I have a really hard time with defending the faith. I can get really zealous in private, and then as soon as I go out in the real world (or the internet), I panic. I have a deep desire for everyone to work together peacefully. When people make comments about something I disagree with, politically or religiously… I tend to let it slide. When people start questioning me about my faith, evenly nicely and just out of friendly curiosity, I start to panic and can’t think of anything to say. (Actually I panic and can’t think of anything to say when people make comments in conversations, which is why I tend to let it slide.)

So at Adoration, I was feeling OK because I had written a response and I thought it was pretty good. I was worried about the deeper issue though- Why do I have such a hard time being courageous? When ever the opportunity to speak out comes to me, I get a lot of anxiety and stress, it actually physically affects me. I feel nauseous, it bothers me and starts to affect my school and family performance. Do I not have enough faith? It’s obvious that I don’t have the Holy Spirit in me. Is it a lack of trust in Jesus? I showed all of this to the Lord and I asked for help. (I’ve been working on trusting him more.)

I went through the stations, and I kind of found the answer there- specifically, three things stood out at me.

(1) Jesus is condemned to death.
It struck me how people blamed him for all sorts of lies and he stood it quietly, with love, not how I usually take it- I get anxious about what people think of me, and then get angry. Definitely a different response…

(2) Simon helps Jesus carry the cross.
I know in the Passion of Christ movie, Simon is upset to help Jesus, and how that really bothers his Sacred Heart. So usually when I do the stations, I replace Simon with myself and do it joyfully to help out more. That struck me- When handed crosses, receiving them joyfully helps the Lord in his passion.

(3) Alleluia part
Ok, this isn’t specifically in the stations, but during the “Simon helps Jesus” part, I usually start praising him, which includes singing “Alleluia!” That also struck me- when you receive crosses, instead of stress, praise and thanksgiving.

After the stations, I reflected back on this, and I kind of found that “three-part plan” for encountering trouble. I sort of applied it here, but to be honest- I do it, I think I have it, I go on Facebook, and I end up anxious about the debate all over again.

Long story short, later, I was feeling pretty good. I thought I had the trust part down. I thought I was ready to handle whatever the world threw at me. The person posted back, and I was able to remain pretty collected, and I thought about it for a while, and then posted back. I thought I had handled it pretty well and I wished it would end there.

Later I went back on to Facebook, and there was another response- a lot longer, a lot about how I was wrong, pretty challenging. I stepped back from the situation and thought it over. I kind of started to have doubts about my position, but I thought further into it and I worked through it.

Later I read a story about how Maximilian would engage anti-christian street preachers with love and confidence, right in the open, and the “I’m not doing enough/doing it right” guilt started to keep in.

 

[Luna_de_Colores]

(Part 2)

My problem: (well, one of them)

I’m not sure how to convey what I think to this person. I’m pretty certain that even if I post a good response, it won’t help. Actually, I’m seriously considering just dropping the whole thing, because of the level of stress it’s causing. I’m trying to remember what I learned in Adoration, but it’s hard; it would be so easy to just stop. The more personal attacks hurt, I don’t like how they think I’m a sheep, I don’t like how they think I’m “denying love” or “human rights” or something. On one hand: I do want to genuinely help them see clearly here, but this issue runs so deep it’s diffacult change hearts and minds with a few words. On the other: I kind of feel a need to “prove that I’m right” and defend myself against the accusations and “win the argument”. On top of it all, when you get down it it, I’m just scared, angry, and disgusted with myself all at the same time. (That why I don’t like debating with people, I have a hard time “letting it go” and I worry about other people’s opinions of me.)

I would post the conversation here, but I’m actually scared they will do an internet search and find me here. Yes, I’m serious. I feel kind of guilty about it, so maybe I should, just to get over myself.

So for the Facebook in particular:

Should I just let this drop? Is that a good idea or a bad idea? Would it be wrong of me if I didn’t reply?

Second part, more general:

Do any “veterans” here have any advice for handling internet apologetics?
How do you tell if you’re responding out of a sense “to win the game” or with charity?
Is it OK to just let some things drop and not reply?
How do you discern what you should drop, and what you shouldn’t?
Any advice in general?

And the big question: How do you get to the point where you’re ready, willing, and able to run out and engage and interact with people who disagree with you and even hate you, with love and confidence, like St. Maximilian did? How can you evangelize with love when you’re scared?

~

Thank you if you made it this far. If you can help, I’d appreciate it even more. I’m 17 and Catholicism is just starting to “become my own” faith, so I’m still trying to “work it all out”. And all this started over some measly comments on a single Facebook post! It going to take a lot of work to get where I need to be… :doh2:

 

[HillbillyHermit]

I don’t know how much help I can be to you, but I’ll try.

First thing -and you probably won’t like this- is you’re only 17! That’s kind of young to be defending the Faith. If being more deeply involved in Catholicism is somewhat new to you, it might be wise to slow down, get to develop your love for and knowledge of God, and not feel bad that you can’t defend the Church every time someone has something critical or mean to say about it. I’m 41 and can’t explain things as well as many, or as I’d like to. I’m a firm believer that even though knowing something with the mind is important, it’s even more important to have it in the heart before you can pass that along to anyone else.

Also, what I’ve finally learned and put into practice more is having a cool down or calm down time, usually 12 hours, before replying to something on the internet that makes me anxious, angry, hurt, or defensive. This also works in real life. Maybe you’ve heard some of us older people talk about “sleeping on it”. Some of these old sayings get old for good reason, they work! Getting it out of your mind, some separation of time, and rest can go a long way.

 

[Luna_de_Colores]

I don’t know how much help I can be to you, but I’ll try.

First thing -and you probably won’t like this- is you’re only 17! That’s kind of young to be defending the Faith.

No- I don’t mind at all, thank you for your help! I agree, it is a pretty young age.

If being more deeply involved in Catholicism is somewhat new to you, it might be wise to slow down, get to develop your love for and knowledge of God, and not feel bad that you can’t defend the Church every time someone has something critical or mean to say about it. I’m 41 and can’t explain things as well as many, or as I’d like to. I’m a firm believer that even though knowing something with the mind is important, it’s even more important to have it in the heart before you can pass that along to anyone else.

That is really helpful. I try to do what I can, but slowing down and accepting you can’t take on Western Civilization (at least in one night ) is good advice. I grew up in a pretty orthodox Catholic home, went to private school and was homeschooled, so I know a lot in my head about Catholicism, but it’s only recently that I’ve really begun to love the faith and encounter Christ on a intimate level, so yes, I’m new to being deeply involved with Catholicism.

Also, what I’ve finally learned and put into practice more is having a cool down or calm down time, usually 12 hours, before replying to something on the internet that makes me anxious, angry, hurt, or defensive. This also works in real life. Maybe you’ve heard some of us older people talk about “sleeping on it”. Some of these old sayings get old for good reason, they work! Getting it out of your mind, some separation of time, and rest can go a long way.

Yes! That is extremely important, especially for people who tend to have quick gut reactions (like me). Old wisdom is still wise, even today. Thank you for your advice, I can always use a reminder!

 

[3DOCTORS]

Luna,

Facebook is difficult territory for Catholic apologetics! Actually for being 17 you did better with it than I did (I’m 51 and have struggled with it since I started on Facebook a little over 2 years ago).

Others may disagree with me on this and say we should not back down on evangelizing on Facebook, but I have had to do so myself because it was upsetting and I think there are other ways I can do my part in building God’s Kingdom here on Earth. Remember - different gifts, same Spirit.

I’ve put the people I want to hear from more often as “Close Friends” - my family mainly. I then get more feeds from them. We don’t really share religious stuff much; they are not practicing for the most part, which makes me sad, but I pray for them.

I’m also getting burned out on Facebook for several reasons, so I’m limiting my time on it and also not posting much.

HillbillyHermit’s suggestion of taking a “cool down” time is a very good piece of advice. Even way back when before there was all this social networking, I learned the hard way that firing off a strongly-worded response to something was a bad idea. And even just any response needs time to be thoughtfully considered and given time to make sure that’s what you want to say because once you do you can’t take it back.

Good luck!

 

[Forkfoot]

Facebook can be a nasty place. The way it’s set up it’s basically a big stage for the ego to perform on. I highly recommend taking some time to firmly root yourself in the faith, breath her air, let her blood beat in your veins. Before you start looking outward for people to save and problems to fix, it’s important to look inward. Clear things up in yourself and the rest will come naturally; it’s nothing to stress over.

Remember that the greatest good you can possibly do for the world is to become a saint yourself. Work out your sanctification and the rest will all fall into place. The Kingdom of Heaven can be birthed into this world through a saintly heart.

 

[josh987654321]

(Part 2)

My problem: (well, one of them)

I’m not sure how to convey what I think to this person. I’m pretty certain that even if I post a good response, it won’t help. Actually, I’m seriously considering just dropping the whole thing, because of the level of stress it’s causing. I’m trying to remember what I learned in Adoration, but it’s hard; it would be so easy to just stop. The more personal attacks hurt, I don’t like how they think I’m a sheep, I don’t like how they think I’m “denying love” or “human rights” or something. On one hand: I do want to genuinely help them see clearly here, but this issue runs so deep it’s diffacult change hearts and minds with a few words. On the other: I kind of feel a need to “prove that I’m right” and defend myself against the accusations and “win the argument”. On top of it all, when you get down it it, I’m just scared, angry, and disgusted with myself all at the same time. (That why I don’t like debating with people, I have a hard time “letting it go” and I worry about other people’s opinions of me.)

I would post the conversation here, but I’m actually scared they will do an internet search and find me here. Yes, I’m serious. I feel kind of guilty about it, so maybe I should, just to get over myself.

So for the Facebook in particular:

Should I just let this drop? Is that a good idea or a bad idea? Would it be wrong of me if I didn’t reply?

Second part, more general:

Do any “veterans” here have any advice for handling internet apologetics?
How do you tell if you’re responding out of a sense “to win the game” or with charity?
Is it OK to just let some things drop and not reply?
How do you discern what you should drop, and what you shouldn’t?
Any advice in general?

And the big question: How do you get to the point where you’re ready, willing, and able to run out and engage and interact with people who disagree with you and even hate you, with love and confidence, like St. Maximilian did? How can you evangelize with love when you’re scared?

~

Thank you if you made it this far. If you can help, I’d appreciate it even more. I’m 17 and Catholicism is just starting to “become my own” faith, so I’m still trying to “work it all out”. And all this started over some measly comments on a single Facebook post! It going to take a lot of work to get where I need to be… :doh2:

Firstly, it takes alot of courage to speak against same sex marriage, against all of the ones fueled by emotion and hatred towards the truth, I very much respect and admire you for that, this is why I am on here anonnymously, because I know that this issue will hit me personally, it already has amongst close family and I want to be prepared for when I have to defend myself against the people so emotionally charged by it.

I very strongly recommend reading this - catholic.com/sites/default/files/why_homosexual_unions_are_not_marriages.pdf

It’s very short and very worth while reading, id also recommend sharing it with those who are attacking you on facebook.

There is also something that Christ dictates to Katya Rivas in her books that I try to remind myself of every day, the links where I have sourced these from are in my signature, please don’t be affraid to view them.

"Children, you should not fear suffering, because fear prevents you from doing the Divine Will." Jesus Christ

And** “Humility opens the doors to the kingdom of heaven.”**

Remember though, when you are debating same sex marriage, always be sure to separate the homosexual from the acts of homosexuality, as these people are emotionally charged because they are mistakenly lumping the two together and they will try an catch you out in saying something wrong by trying to get you to lump them together, kind of how the pharisees tried to catch Jesus out in saying something wrong.

I also strongly recommend visiting the links in my signature when you have time, because they are truly remarkable, words cannot describe and will strengthen you in the Catholic faith enourmously.

but first of all read this - catholic.com/sites/default/files/why_homosexual_unions_are_not_marriages.pdf as linked above, it will arm you with the way to approach the debate of same sex marriage.

Also let these people come to you, make sure they question you and not the other way around, as we shouldn’t go looking for an argument, even if we are right.

And remember, people like to be shown that they are wrong, not told that they are wrong.

Thank you for reading, I sincerely hope this helps you, because these sources linked here have helped me alot.

It isn’t easy to defend the Church, if you feel in way over your head and it begins to be more than you can handle, than I know Christ will understand if you stop and agree to disagree with these people.
Josh

 

[Listener]

I have noticed that a lot of people on Facebook send one political message after another. If that is what they want to do, I don’t object. However, I don’t enjoy using Facebook that way. I also have friends on Facebook who will post something with the “F” word in it, or they will post an inappropriate joke. I have also noticed that a lot of my Catholic friends who go to Mass every Sunday will pass along pro-gay marriage messages.

I never unfriend anyone - I just simply ignore what they post. If they post a cute picture of their family or a beautiful sunset, I am very generous with my “likes.” I will personally pass along a cute animal video, a beautiful song, or a picture I have taken, but I will almost never say anything that is political on Facebook. I will also sometimes share a beautiful picture of Jesus, or maybe a message that is religious but in good taste.

I have NEVER had anyone ask me why I’m not commenting on their posts!

 

[robwar]

I guess I view facebook use as best for light hearted sharing of basic doings and pictures.
I don’t believe in getting into heavy debates with people and when people get too pushy with views and ideas that are different from mine, I don’t respond and cut it off. If people and post and issues and views are going to upset you, then stay away from posting such stuff. Likewise being 17, you should always consider that what you post can be used against you by an employer, future school, etc. because more and more now employers and even universities are looking into social media and using what people post to hire or fire people. Save the heavier apologetics for forums like this where there is much more of a common basis. Facebook, twitter and others broad base social media is not the best places to get into it with others. That is my 2 cents and is come from a mom and adult perspecitive and knowing someone who got fired for facebook posts.

 

[St_Francis]

The more personal attacks hurt, I don’t like how they think I’m a sheep, I don’t like how they think I’m “denying love” or “human rights” or something. On one hand: I do want to genuinely help them see clearly here, but this issue runs so deep it’s diffacult change hearts and minds with a few words. On the other: I kind of feel a need to “prove that I’m right” and defend myself against the accusations and “win the argument”.

I like your three points so much I want to copy them to keep!

This is what used to be my problem (and sometimes still is ). I now try to keep my comments to this: I will probably not change the mind of the person with whom I am discussing: I may plant a seed but I try to limit my comments to providing a reasonable explanation of the Chirch’s position and answering sincere questions, and I do that because I know others are reading who may need to hear something along those lines to counter what they hear so much of everywhere else.

I try not to have the goal of changing the other person’s mind, because that is way beyond my control! and I try not to have the goal of “winning”–I just want to provide explanations.

This helps me keep my perspective.

I think you are doing a great thing! It is very difficult and we all stumble on our way to learning, so just remember to keep it low-priority in your life, because your spiritual life is much more important.

 

[josh987654321]

I like your three points so much I want to copy them to keep!

This is what used to be my problem (and sometimes still is ). I now try to keep my comments to this: I will probably not change the mind of the person with whom I am discussing: I may plant a seed but I try to limit my comments to providing a reasonable explanation of the Chirch’s position and answering sincere questions, and I do that because I know others are reading who may need to hear something along those lines to counter what they hear so much of everywhere else.

I try not to have the goal of changing the other person’s mind, because that is way beyond my control! and I try not to have the goal of “winning”–I just want to provide explanations.

This helps me keep my perspective.

I think you are doing a great thing! It is very difficult and we all stumble on our way to learning, so just remember to keep it low-priority in your life, because your spiritual life is much more important.

I agree, hit the nail on the head St Francis

I normally start off with something like “Why should we legalise same sex marriage?”

Than I use their answer and say “Than with that same reasoning how could we refuse polygamous marriage being law? if people can’t force their belief of marriage between a man and a woman onto others, than how can you force your definition of marriage between two people onto those in a polygamous relationship?”

People always like to be shown when they are wrong and not told.

This short booklet will help you alot with how to oppose SSM - catholic.com/sites/default/files/why_homosexual_unions_are_not_marriages.pdf

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[Nandarani]

*so just remember to keep it low-priority in your life, because your spiritual life is much more important. *

Quote from StFrancis’ post above. In my view as a result of experience not everyone is equal in their ability to be effectively confrontational, or their desire or affinity with that mode. That capacity may not change very much over the course of a life either; people remain quite stable in their basic mentality if they are not taking pharmaceutical drugs, it seems.

Not everyone is suited by nature to be a warrior. Sometimes we can look at someone who IS a good warrior and feel, WOW…that is when one with a gentler soul has to not wish to be like that person because of their ability to command attention and even bend others to their way of thinking.

 

[Auntie_A]

I’m not sure about the Facebook aspect of your questions but I can read through your lines a bit about questioning when to speak, when to be silent; knowing whether you are silent out of wisdom, or fear and lack of moral courage.

Just know this: everything does not require a direct response. Lately, it appears that everyone must have an opinion on every topic. Like it’s some beauty contest and we’re all competing in the finals. Some people and topics can just sit there and stew, you do not need to respond or attempt to persuade every time.

In fact, sometimes that is the best tactic. Step back and listen and pray or just leave if it is not civil: “I will not grace that comment with a response.”

BUT, if you feel you are just being timid, start reading apologetics books, threads, handbooks. Start listening to good debaters. Start practicing with someone who is safe, who can teach you a few debate pointers. Go to a Toastmaster’s meeting and see if you can sharpen your speaking in front of others.

I think you need to learn debating techniques. If I go into a meeting, discussion, debate and I don’t have debate techniques, manners, and the Holy Spirit above all, I am going to be very nervous about speaking out. This is why most people’s number one fear is public speaking: they just aren’t prepared. The same goes for writing.

Also, ask yourself: who can be helped by my speaking up right now? In the Gay marriage issue, haven’t the arguments been laid out already? Is the debate going to be won by points or by prayers? Win the opposition by your love and concern. You can use arguments when someone is actually listening.

Maximilian Kolbe, eh? What a good person to emulate. He was outspoken in his newspaper, prayerful, intuitive, a strong and wise leader, a visionary, and a brave, heroic saint.

 

[Joe_5859]

It might be helpful for you to talk to a priest about this. He could probably give you more personal guidance.

Internet apologetics can be tricky business. Certainly we don’t want to be ashamed of Jesus, the Church, or the teachings of our faith. We want to bring the light of the a gospel to those dark places. But at the same time, we are not required to beat our heads against the wall indefinitely. And we also have to take care that we do not make things worse with a belligerently confrontational spirit.

I don’t think we have to wait until we have our spiritual life in perfect order before we attempt to evangelize. If we did, we’d probably be waiting out entire life and never get around to actually evangelizing. But there is wisdom in knowing when it is best to be silent or to recollect ourselves. This is where the advice of a priest who knows you would be very helpful.

The most important thing is to keep praying. Our God is a God of peace. If you are feeling a lack of that peace, that’s the first clue to tap the brakes and reevaluate.

 

[vlf7973]

If the debates are causing you so much stress, I’d avoid those debates until you feel more ready.

If you simply want to post stuff on Facebook for your Christian friends to see and you don’t want your atheist friends to see it, you could use the custom friends lists feature. You can put all of your atheist friends onto a separate list, then every time you post something “religious” then you can set that post to be hidden from all your atheist friends.

Regarding debates in general, my advice is to consider who you are debating against, before the debate really gets going. Likely, if you attempt to debate gay marriage (from a Catholic standpoint) against an atheist, the atheist is going to disagree with nearly everything you say and the debate will result in nothing more than wasted time (and you getting stressed out).

Would it be wrong of me if I didn’t reply?

There is nothing wrong with conceding the debate (I actually think you probably should concede, if you’re getting that stressed over it), but I’d say that it’d be disrespectful to simply “not reply”. If you don’t reply it sends the message that you don’t care what the other person thinks, or that you can’t even be bothered to respond. You should probably make one last reply, kindly letting the other person know that you no longer would like to continue the debate (but try not to sound like you’ve admitted defeat).

 

[Luna_de_Colores]

Wow- thank you for the kind replies everyone! I’ve been busy today so I haven’t had the time to reply earlier. It has been about two days since the whole incident, and I suspect that the person has blocked my posts, although I could be wrong. I have decided to quietly bow out even if the person comes back. (thanks vlf7973).

I’ve read through everyone’s posts. Although I would like to address everyone- there’s a lot to think about now, so I’ll just reply to a few main points:

Than I use their answer and say “Than with that same reasoning how could we refuse polygamous marriage being law? if people can’t force their belief of marriage between a man and a woman onto others, than how can you force your definition of marriage between two people onto those in a polygamous relationship?”

Er, that actually did come up, they mentioned it themselves, (I didn’t bring it up because I’ve found that that argument isn’t very effective), and they stated something along the lines of that line of thinking was “bigoted” and who cares if people get married to multiple partners or appliances, it “doesn’t affect them”.

Thank you for the two recommendations of “Why Same-Sex Unions are not Marriages”, do have a hardcore copy of it which I did use. Very helpful booklet.

Also let these people come to you, make sure they question you and not the other way around, as we shouldn’t go looking for an argument, even if we are right.

Good point. That’s why I did feel obligated to respond this time, they came to me and were asking questions about it, so I felt like I had to take it on.

Likewise being 17, you should always consider that what you post can be used against you by an employer, future school, etc. because more and more now employers and even universities are looking into social media and using what people post to hire or fire people.

Yes, that’s a huge problem. I’ve had a HR say that if they ever received an application with a college such as Franciscan University of Steubenville on it, it would go automatically into the trash. My Facebook settings are on private for friends only, so unless an employer is my friend he won’t be able to read it. That might not be such a bad thing though, because I wouldn’t really be as quiet about my beliefs in a workplace, however…

I like your three points so much I want to copy them to keep!

Aw. Feel free!

I try not to have the goal of changing the other person’s mind, because that is way beyond my control! and I try not to have the goal of “winning”–I just want to provide explanations.
…

I think you are doing a great thing! It is very difficult and we all stumble on our way to learning, so just remember to keep it low-priority in your life, because your spiritual life is much more important.

That’s a really good thing to keep in focus.

Not everyone is suited by nature to be a warrior. Sometimes we can look at someone who IS a good warrior and feel, WOW…that is when one with a gentler soul has to not wish to be like that person because of their ability to command attention and even bend others to their way of thinking.

Thank you for that. My mom is a professed Pauline of the Holy Family Institute, so I was around a lot of Pauline spirituality and charism (zeal, media, and apologetics!) growing up, so now that I look back on it, I’ve always pretty much thought that the “best” Catholics were the outspoken, persuasive, zealous type. I think I’ll need to reflect on this more, with St. Therese of Lisieux.

Just know this: everything does not require a direct response.
…
BUT, if you feel you are just being timid, start reading apologetics books, threads, handbooks. Start listening to good debaters. Start practicing with someone who is safe, who can teach you a few debate pointers. Go to a Toastmaster’s meeting and see if you can sharpen your speaking in front of others.
…
I think you need to learn debating techniques.
…
Also, ask yourself: who can be helped by my speaking up right now? In the Gay marriage issue, haven’t the arguments been laid out already? Is the debate going to be won by points or by prayers? Win the opposition by your love and concern. You can use arguments when someone is actually listening.

Maximilian Kolbe, eh? What a good person to emulate. He was outspoken in his newspaper, prayerful, intuitive, a strong and wise leader, a visionary, and a brave, heroic saint.

These are all helpful points- especially the third. I’ve heard of toastmasters and I was interested in attending, actually. Now I have more motivation to go. I was taught public speaking and enrolled in a debate club as a kid but I could probably use a refresher. Actually I could start now- My mom has a CD set from the Great Courses on Public Speaking in her room right now.

Yes, I’m particularly found of St. Maximilian. I almost did not pick him as my confirmation saint- I switched to him literally five minutes before the mass started. But it was a great choice; he’s really helped me and touched my life since then.

 

[Luna_de_Colores]

(Part 2)

I don’t think we have to wait until we have our spiritual life in perfect order before we attempt to evangelize. If we did, we’d probably be waiting out entire life and never get around to actually evangelizing. But there is wisdom in knowing when it is best to be silent or to recollect ourselves. This is where the advice of a priest who knows you would be very helpful.

Funny you should mention that…
A few months ago I almost posted on this forum about another issue. I want(ed) to approach my priest and ask him about vocations because at the time it was really bothering me and I thought I should talk to someone knowledgeable about it. But I kind of have the problem most people have nowadays- my parish priest is a good man, but he’s busy and I never seem to get the opportunity, and I don’t want to bother him. Instead of posting here about approaching him, I ended up talking to my mom about it, and she was supportive and we figured it out. Also once, for maybe a few months before my confirmation, didn’t follow the faith as well as I should have (nothing mortal. I attend a community college and a lot of lies get pushed through it). Fortunately I came abound before anything stupid happened and I made a confession with him. Well, it was embarrassing and now I kind of try to avoid him. (You could say that he knows me however!) Now that you mention it, and my mom still thinks I should talk to him, I probably should.

Thanks again to everyone who took the time to reply. I have a lot to think about and do now and it has been helpful spiritually, not just for Facebook but overall.

(Wow- my posts are always so long -_-)

 

[josh987654321]

Er, that actually did come up, they mentioned it themselves, (I didn’t bring it up because I’ve found that that argument isn’t very effective), and they stated something along the lines of that line of thinking was “bigoted” and who cares if people get married to multiple partners or appliances, it “doesn’t affect them”.

Yea some are okay with it, I just like to bring it up so that they are aware that other re-definitions of marriage will take place, for some people this makes them think more about what they are supporting but for others like athiests they don’t really care.

Thank you for the two recommendations of “Why Same-Sex Unions are not Marriages”, do have a hardcore copy of it which I did use. Very helpful booklet.

I only have the online one, however in light of my recent experiences I wouldn’t use it for athiest’s, as I used it recently and alot of the ‘non-religious’ arguments can be equally rebutteled, I would only use it for those who are religious, as that short booklet “Why Same Sex Unions are Not Marriages” is very good for chrisitans especially the last couple of pages, however when your dealing with athiests, It doesn’t work.

Because perception is reality, the book say’s “it’s not whether we want to legalise same sex marriage, it’s whether or not we want to pretend it exists” which is very true for christians, but for athiests, who already have a warped view of marriage, their perception is the reality of marriage, so it’s no longer pretend or delusional thinking for them, it’s reality for them.

But especially if you are dealing with Christians that booklet is very helpful for why christians should not support same sex marriage being law, but don’t use it for athiests .

When it comes to dealing with athiest’s, there is no secular argument, it basically comes down to agree to disagree and let democracy do it’s job.

Good point. That’s why I did feel obligated to respond this time, they came to me and were asking questions about it, so I felt like I had to take it on.

Just state that because of your religious beliefs, I can’t recognise a homosexual union as a marriage, as I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman, if you believe otherwise, than thats fine, just vote for it and let democracy take it’s course.

Unfortunatly really the only defense against same sex marriage, is religion, unless you are going to convert athiest’s to christianity, they will never agree with you.

However when it comes to debating with chistians, I would recommend that booklet, we need to reach christians who support same sex marriage being law more than anything, as to be christian and pro-same sex marriage is a contradiction, to support it being law means to support the removal of christian values in our legal system that governs us.

So with athiest’s, I would just agree to disagree and leave it at that, however with Chrisitians you can educate them on their faith and why it’s important/beneficial for society that Christian values remain in the law that governs us . Hope this helps you

This is another good article, however alot can be rebutteled from an athiest’s point of view - osv.com/tabid/7621/itemid/10339/Rebuttals-to-arguments-for-samesex-marriage.aspx

Thank you for reading
Josh