He descended to the dead

[junostarlighter]

What do we exactly mean when we say that Jesus descended to the dead? I’ve heard it he descended into hell as well. Which one is it? Dead or hell? I am more concerned though by what we believe when we say it in the creed. Feel free to go into as much detail as you want. I want to know my faith better:thumbsup:

~Mario

 

[KyrieEleison]

Are you talking about the apostles creed? If so it’s both. The older version of the creed, says he descended into hell, and the newer one says to the dead. Here’s a good link about it.

newadvent.org/cathen/01629a.htm

 

[LilyM]

What the phrase MEANS, though, is that Jesus went to the abode of those who had died before his time, to redeem them as he had those who were living, thus opening heaven to them as well. I think ‘the dead’ is a better translation for this reason.

 

[Heather07]

This reminds me…I remember hearing “he descended into hell” during the Creed when my grandparents would pray the rosary with me as a child, but in Mass during the Creed, we say “he ascended into heaven” instead. Was it really changed or am I just confusing the Apostle’s Creed with the Nicene Creed? (I am still learning these things as a new Catholic)

 

[KyrieEleison]

Apostles’ Creed

---

1. I believe in God the Father, Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth:
2. And in Jesus Christ, his only begotten Son, our Lord:
3. Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary:
4. Suffered under Pontius Pilate; was crucified, dead and buried: He descended into hell:
5. The third day he rose again from the dead:
6. He ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty:
7. From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead:
8. I believe in the Holy Ghost:
9. I believe in the holy catholic church: the communion of saints:
10. The forgiveness of sins:

1l. The resurrection of the body:

1. And the life everlasting. Amen.

 

[Mystophilus]

What do we exactly mean when we say that Jesus descended to the dead? I’ve heard it he descended into hell as well. Which one is it? Dead or hell? I am more concerned though by what we believe when we say it in the creed. Feel free to go into as much detail as you want. I want to know my faith better.

8 Therefore He says:
“ When He ascended on high,
He led captivity captive,
And gave gifts to men.”
9 (Now this, “He ascended”—what does it mean but that He also first** descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)
Ephesians 4:8-10**

18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us[a] to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited** in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.
1 Peter 3:18-20**

These passages have always been very perplexing. However, someone eventually tried to explain them:

11 Jesus saith unto him: Hades said unto Beliar: As I perceive, a God cometh hither. [Slavonic and latin 2 continue: And the angels cried unto the powers, saying: Remove your gates, ye princes, remove the everlasting doors, for behold the King of glory cometh down.

12 Hades said: Who is the King of glory, that cometh down from heaven unto us?

13 And when I had descended five hundred steps, Hades was troubled, saying: I hear the breathing of the Most High, and I cannot endure it. (latin 2. He cometh with great fragrance and I cannot bear it.) 14 But the devil answered and said: Submit not thyself, O Hades, but be strong: for God himself hath not descended upon the earth. 15 But when I had descended yet five hundred steps, the angels and the powers cried out: Take hold, remove the doors, for behold the King of glory cometh down. And Hades said: O, woe unto me, for I hear the breath of God.]"
The Gospel of Bartholomew

 

[Ron_Conte]

Christ descended to Hell, that place of eternal punishment, to bring order there, so that even the damned would know that He is the Son of God, and so that every knee would bend to him, in heaven, on earth and even under the earth.

Christ also visited the holy souls in Purgatory, so that those who died before him would know him before entering Heaven.

Ron

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

This reminds me…I remember hearing “he descended into hell” during the Creed when my grandparents would pray the rosary with me as a child, but in Mass during the Creed, we say “he ascended into heaven” instead. Was it really changed or am I just confusing the Apostle’s Creed with the Nicene Creed? (I am still learning these things as a new Catholic)

Youo are confusing the Creeds.

 

[Mommyof02green]

He descended into hell (the dead), on the third day he rose again.
The book Catholicism for Dummies; The Twelve Aritcles of Catholic Faith cheat sheet.:

The hell that Jesus descended into wasn’t the hell of the damned, where Jews and Christians believe the devil and his demons reside. Hell was merely a word that Jews and Christians used to describe the place of the dead. This passage affirms that on the third day he rose, meaning Jesus came back from the dead of his own divine power. He wasn’t just clinically dead for a few minutes, he was dead, dead, then he rose from the dead. More then a resuscitated corpse, Jesus possessed a glorified and risen body.

 

[Mommyof02green]

This reminds me…I remember hearing “he descended into hell” during the Creed when my grandparents would pray the rosary with me as a child, but in Mass during the Creed, we say “he ascended into heaven” instead. Was it really changed or am I just confusing the Apostle’s Creed with the Nicene Creed? (I am still learning these things as a new Catholic)

I think you are confusing the 2.

This web-link has both the Apostles Creed and Nicene Creed side by side so I think it would help you: order of the Mass.

Note: On the web-link the Apostles Creed says “He descended to the dead”… I have seen it this way, and I have seen “descended into hell”.

I just used the web-link because it does give both creeds side by side. Hope this helps.

 

[Heather07]

I think you are confusing the 2.

This web-link has both the Apostles Creed and Nicene Creed side by side so I think it would help you: order of the Mass.

Note: On the web-link the Apostles Creed says “He descended to the dead”… I have seen it this way, and I have seen “descended into hell”.

I just used the web-link because it does give both creeds side by side. Hope this helps.

You are right, I did confuse them. So it is the Nicene Creed that we say at Mass and the Apostles Creed that is said during the Rosary then. Although, I think I may have heard the Apostles Creed at some Masses before, and I have definately heard it at my bf’s Episcopal service. Are churches given the choice of which creed to say at mass?

 

[Mommyof02green]

You are right, I did confuse them. So it is the Nicene Creed that we say at Mass and the Apostles Creed that is said during the Rosary then. Although, I think I may have heard the Apostles Creed at some Masses before, and I have definately heard it at my bf’s Episcopal service. Are churches given the choice of which creed to say at mass?

As for as what other chruches do—I hav limited knowledge—. I do know that some the Apostles Creed some say the Nicene Creed.

We say the Nicene Creed at Mass, however if it’s a “Children’s” Mass the Apostle Creed can be said. It’s because it’s a shorter creed and easier for children… so you very well could of heard it at Mass.

 

[dch1983]

He descended into hell (the dead), on the third day he rose again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The book Catholicism for Dummies; The Twelve Aritcles of Catholic Faith cheat sheet.
The hell that Jesus descended into wasn’t the hell of the damned, where Jews and Christians believe the devil and his demons reside. Hell was merely a word that Jews and Christians used to describe the place of the dead. This passage affirms that on the third day he rose, meaning Jesus came back from the dead of his own divine power. He wasn’t just clinically dead for a few minutes, he was dead, dead, then he rose from the dead. More then a resuscitated corpse, Jesus possessed a glorified and risen body.

This is dead on. The purpose of this line in the Nicene Creed was to address those sects/circles of thought who argued that Jesus didn’t ACTUALLY die, and therefore never rose from the dead. This is not to suggest that Jesus actually went to hell with the devil and deamons but to emphasize that we as Christians believe he actually died and was then raised. Hence ‘creed’, from the Latin ‘credo’ meaning, “I believe…”

 

[Mommyof02green]

This is dead on. The purpose of this line in the Nicene Creed was to address those sects/circles of thought who argued that Jesus didn’t ACTUALLY die, and therefore never rose from the dead. This is not to suggest that Jesus actually went to hell with the devil and deamons but to emphasize that we as Christians believe he actually died and was then raised. Hence ‘creed’, from the Latin ‘credo’ meaning, “I believe…”

Actually the line is NOT in the Nicene Creed. It’s in the Apostles Creed. See the 2 Creeds below.

Nicene Creed
We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth, of all that is seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God,
begotten, not made, one in Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered, died, and was buried.
On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

Apostles Creed

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord.
He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit
and born of the Virgin Mary.
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended to the dead.
On the third day he rose again.
He ascended into heaven,
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting.

Amen.

See how it’s in the **Apostles Creed **“He descended to the dead”. The **Nicene Creed **states “For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered, died, and was buried”

 

[Milliardo]

I asked this in the Purgatory thread, and maybe this is also a good place to ask: in 1 Peter 3:19, we’re told Jesus went to the spirits in prison; what are those spirits? Are they the souls of people, or are they angels? In 2 Peter 2:4 we’re also shown of rebellious angels who are in Tartarus, which was a place in Greek mythology for hellfire. I’m in a discussion with someone about Purgatory in another board, and he pointed out to me that the souls in prison are these angels in 2 Peter 2:4, though I am aware that the prison in 1 Peter 3:19 is Sheol, the Jewish abode of the dead. Sheol has never been associated with hellfire as far as I know.

 

[dch1983]

Actually the line is NOT in the Nicene Creed. It’s in the Apostles Creed.

Right. I certainly know the difference but accidentally referenced the wrong one while typing my response…

Thanks for noting the mistake…

 

[Mommyof02green]

Right. I certainly know the difference but accidentally referenced the wrong one while typing my response…

Thanks for noting the mistake…

I’m sure you do!!!

I just figured you confused the 2 like some do…
I confuse them from time to time myself it happens.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

What do we exactly mean when we say that Jesus descended to the dead? I’ve heard it he descended into hell as well. Which one is it? Dead or hell? I am more concerned though by what we believe when we say it in the creed. Feel free to go into as much detail as you want. I want to know my faith better:thumbsup:

~Mario

It *doesn’t *mean that He moved in space as we do when changing position by descending a stair-way or going down in a lift No motion in place is involved, because we are talking of a corpse - and corpses do not move without the life in them. Besides, the world of the dead can’t be reached by travelling ​

The dead Body of Jesus was always hypostatically united to His Divinity - it never ceased to be the Body of the God-Man; but after His Death, & before His Resurrection in a new & Glorious Body, it was dead. The Body is not the Person - but the Person, which is that of God made man, was incomplete without the Body; just like any purely human person. He is as truly a unity of body and soul as any other man.

Although this is not the entire meaning of His “descent”, what is sure is that He shared the condition of death fully - where He differs from us is not in truly undergoing death, but in the fact that His Body did not corrupt, as ours do in death. This is because He came to destroy death by undergoing death - which in turn is so that He might bring His own Life to those who believe in Him. What He does by dying, is transform death from the inside, so that it leads to Life. He also shows that He is God-with-us - not God-at-a-safe-distance-looking-on, as it were. God does not see human life as a spectator sport - He gets His Hands dirty.

• “Hell” here means what it does in Old English, and meant until a few centuries ago: “the place of the departed” - IOW, what in the OT is called “Sheol”.
• “Tartarus” in Greek mythology is the place of the wicked and punished dead - Sheol is not a Hebrew Tartarus: Gehenna is.
• Hades is a Greek Sheol, & is the place with “gates” in Matthew 16.
  “Tartarus” is mentioned once in one of the Petrine letters, as part of a verb meaning “to condemn to punishment”. “Gehenna” is the term in the gospels for the place of the punished dead.

The statement in the Creed does not affirm that He went to Gehenna. ##