Healing In Homosexuality

[Fr_of_Jazz]

I understand and I won’t bounce around the question. If your depressed and get therapy that’s fine but your true reliance should be with God to heal you.

It seems then like we’re in the same ball park here. Perhaps it’s a matter of emphasis. If reliance on God means not availing oneself of the medical advances we have made with our God-given intellect (which have therefore been given to us by God through that means), I think that would be presumptuous. That includes psychological advances.

I was depressed for years and had awful anxiety but once I got real with God in a matter of a year I was healed and take no meds. My focus was on doctors and meds. Untill I sat down and said “God I want you to heal me” it was only temporary.

There’s no doubt that our increasing abandonment of God and His teaching as a society contributes a great deal to psychological struggles. And, consequently, getting right with Him contributes a great deal to overcoming them. In some people, it may be all they need. But major depression, bi-polar disorder, schizophrenia seem to have an organic foundation and need medication as well as counseling.

I believe humans have no idea how to properly treat ssa. I believe it’s something only God can heal. I don’t believe a person who ONLY felt attractions for guys can just develope feelings for girls.

Yeah, as I said SSAs are on a scale. If 1 is none and 9 is nothing but, a 9 who finds his/her SSAs problematic and unwanted is probably going to have an extremely hard time overcoming their homosexual problem and developing their heterosexual potential. But not all people experiencing SSAs are a 9: many aren’t.

To be honest idk how to answer your good questions. I just know and seen people be healed with only God and I know it works. I don’t believe humans have shown to effectively treat this…

Dr. Nicolosi has success stories in reparative therapy. But God isn’t excluded. It’s not either-or. In both your experience with people and his a lot depends on where one is on the scale.

In any event, it is certainly the height of foolishness for a person not to avail themselves of the ability and desire God has to heal.

 

[bigcatfish777]

It seems then like we’re in the same ball park here. Perhaps it’s a matter of emphasis. If reliance on God means not availing oneself of the medical advances we have made with our God-given intellect (which have therefore been given to us by God through that means), I think that would be presumptuous. That includes psychological advances.

There’s no doubt that our increasing abandonment of God and His teaching as a society contributes a great deal to psychological struggles. And, consequently, getting right with Him contributes a great deal to overcoming them. In some people, it may be all they need. But major depression, bi-polar disorder, schizophrenia seem to have an organic foundation and need medication as well as counseling.

Yeah, as I said SSAs are on a scale. If 1 is none and 9 is nothing but, a 9 who finds his/her SSAs problematic and unwanted is probably going to have an extremely hard time overcoming their homosexual problem and developing their heterosexual potential. But not all people experiencing SSAs are a 9: many aren’t.

Dr. Nicolosi has success stories in reparative therapy. But God isn’t excluded. It’s not either-or. In both your experience with people and his a lot depends on where one is on the scale.

In any event, it is certainly the height of foolishness for a person not to avail themselves of the ability and desire God has to heal.

I don’t believe NARTH works. And it’s rare if it does. If I had cancer I wouldn’t go somewhere unless I knew it had a high success rate.

I believe every person with SSA should say “no human therapy or method going to heal me”. They should look and trust God only then I believe they will see healing.

Also God dosnt care what scale you are on gay wise. He can do anything. To limit His healing abilities cause of some scale is stupid personally.

 

[marylauravicuna]

Cool I’m checking it out now. I say this because I never met anyone who had success with this. There’s no data that says “hey this is working”. I have met people who completely trusted God and believed for his healing and let God be number one in there life and they were set free. What person is going to put attractions for a girl in you if you never felt that before?

There are definitely people who have been healed. I know for 100% certain of people who have had success with it but do not publicize it because they want to keep it private. They don’t want to be thrown in the midst of the cultural wars, especially because some people take on stalking behavior or act abusively to those who think differently from then on this issue. They don’t want gossip in their social lives.

The fact that everyone who has this sort of therapy does not have success does not mean that it is not successful for everyone. Marriage counesling isn’t always successful but it doesn’t mean that no one should ever try to save a marriage that is falling into divorce. Most long-term therapy methods have low success rates in research studies. There’s a long way between a 100% scientific cure (i.e. polio), and a 50% cure, but 50% is more than 0 and its probably hard to get to 100, without first going through 50. People should have freedom to pursue the sort of therapy that they want to pursue.

 

[Fr_of_Jazz]

I don’t believe NARTH works. And it’s rare if it does. If I had cancer I wouldn’t go somewhere unless I knew it had a high success rate.

To keep to your analogy, if you had cancer, you wouldn’t go anywhere. You’d just (i.e. , only) trust in God. And that’s the point. He gave us minds to work on these problems. To ignore the findings is presumptuous.

Again: why you would apply a different standard for freely chosen reorientation therapy (for those experiencing unwanted SSAs) than you do for any other psychological counseling or medical treatment?

You’re applying an arbitrary standard to unwanted SSAs and you’re engaged in either-or thinking when it’s both-and. I repeat: it is the height of foolishness for a person not to avail themselves of the ability and desire God has to heal. It is also presumptuous not to avail oneself of medical and psychological advances. You haven’t shown why it has to be either-or and not both-and. Why is that?

And NARTH has worked in many cases. Just read the web site. Dr. Nicolosi has been treating clients with unwanted SSAs for over 20 years.

I believe every person with SSA should say “no human therapy or method going to heal me”. They should look and trust God only then I believe they will see healing.

Try that with cancer, diabetes, major depression, bi-polar disorder, or schizophrenia. People can use both. Obviously, as I have been saying, without trust in God, it’s less likely that healing will be realized; but the same holds for utilizing medicine.

Don’t you think God gave us minds to move toward solving these problems? So why do you think they can’t they say: “no human therapy or method alone is going to heal me. I need both that and God"? Why is that?

Also God doesn’t care what scale you are on gay wise. He can do anything. To limit His healing abilities cause of some scale is stupid personally.

Try that with bone cancer or an infectious disease. “It doesn’t matter how far along it is or the scale. God can do anything. To limit His healing abilities cause of some scale is stupid personally.” Please! That is absurd either-or thinking. The same is true with unwanted SSAs.

You’ve got to deal with these questions head on.

 

[bigcatfish777]

To keep to your analogy, if you had cancer, you wouldn’t go anywhere. You’d just (i.e. , only) trust in God. And that’s the point. He gave us minds to work on these problems. To ignore the findings is presumptuous.

Again: why you would apply a different standard for freely chosen reorientation therapy (for those experiencing unwanted SSAs) than you do for any other psychological counseling or medical treatment?

You’re applying an arbitrary standard to unwanted SSAs and you’re engaged in either-or thinking when it’s both-and. I repeat: it is the height of foolishness for a person not to avail themselves of the ability and desire God has to heal. It is also presumptuous not to avail oneself of medical and psychological advances. You haven’t shown why it has to be either-or and not both-and. Why is that?

And NARTH has worked in many cases. Just read the web site. Dr. Nicolosi has been treating clients with unwanted SSAs for over 20 years.

Try that with cancer, diabetes, major depression, bi-polar disorder, or schizophrenia. People can use both. Obviously, as I have been saying, without trust in God, it’s less likely that healing will be realized; but the same holds for utilizing medicine.

Don’t you think God gave us minds to move toward solving these problems? So why do you think they can’t they say: “no human therapy or method alone is going to heal me. I need both that and God"? Why is that?

Try that with bone cancer or an infectious disease. “It doesn’t matter how far along it is or the scale. God can do anything. To limit His healing abilities cause of some scale is stupid personally.” Please! That is absurd either-or thinking. The same is true with unwanted SSAs.

You’ve got to deal with these questions head on.

Let’s say you show someone who has ONLY homosexual attraction this scale. They’ll say “dang I have the smallest hope for change here”. Instant drop in faith. Instant. And since faith is the substance for that healing there goes your power.

I know 2 people who are free. Neither used therapy. They are also against it because they believe they were healed by God and no person could remotely help them with this problem.

If this treatment worked it would be viewed much differently in the medial community. Here me out here. The Exodus CEO said 99.9 % of people do not change. This says a lot.

I believe this is a spirital issue. The devil is feeding these lies into homosexuals minds. Jesus wants to heal. He payed for that healing ALREADY. It is his will. People too offen say “oh well Jesus didn’t heal so it wasn’t his will”. HUGE lie. He wants it and you can pray in complete faith he wants it.

 

[Fr_of_Jazz]

Let’s say you show someone who has ONLY homosexual attraction this scale. They’ll say “dang I have the smallest hope for change here”. Instant drop in faith. Instant. And since faith is the substance for that healing there goes your power.

If they have ONLY SSAs, they already know where they are on the scale. The challenge to their faith is already there. People of faith need to bolster the faith of those with unwanted SSAs ONLY and motivate them to work through counseling/therapy.

Again, why must it be either-or for you and not both-and?

I know 2 people who are free. Neither used therapy. They are also against it because they believe they were healed by God and no person could remotely help them with this problem.

If this treatment worked it would be viewed much differently in the medial community. Here me out here. The Exodus CEO said 99.9 % of people do not change. This says a lot.

And others I have worked with and Dr. Nicolosi say it is both-and, not either-or. God can work along with and through therapy, as in any other area.

Exodus leadership is conflicted and is going to shut the organization down. They apologized to the gay community.

I believe this is a spirital issue. The devil is feeding these lies into homosexuals minds. Jesus wants to heal. He payed for that healing ALREADY. It is his will. People too offen say “oh well Jesus didn’t heal so it wasn’t his will”. HUGE lie. He wants it and you can pray in complete faith he wants it.

It’s both a spiritual issue and a psychological one, like major depression, bi-polar disorder, anxiety disorders, or schizophrenia.

Think. Healing just homosexuality, or any- and everything? Sooner or later we’re all going to die.

Further, people with cancer, diabetes, major depression, bi-polar disorder, anxiety disorders, or schizophrenia, many of which have or can have often organic roots–what do they do? Why should they go to doctors then? And where is the HUGE lie anyway? The converse of your assertion is that if someone is not miraculously healed of any of those things (including unwanted SSAs ONLY), it’s only because they don’t have faith. Common sense would say “pray and go to the doctor.” And good doctors say “I done all I can. The rest is in God’s hands.” Both-and, not either-or.

Again why a different standard for unwanted SSAs (at whatever level) versus major depression, bi-polar disorder, anxiety disorders, or schizophrenia? Should these people not go to counseling and/or get meds? You keep dodging that obvious question. Why is that?

 

[TCEL]

The Courage website, if you’re not familiar with it, will be able to provide you with even more information regarding the Catholic approach to the matter. It’s a big topic to broach, but they’ve been doing good things.

 

[edwest2]

I agree with some of the things in your posts and I want to know what you think of a person that has surrendered everything to God but continues to be attracted to the same sex. Is living chastely something that can bring glory to God, is the ssa something that can be the cross that can the a path to sanctity or what?

Sure. Not to make a direct comparison to homosexuality but there are people addicted to masturbation and sex outside of marriage and watching porn. Being chaste, gay or straight, does not mean you stop finding attractive people attractive. But to get back to the topic, I recommend:

pfox.org/about_us.html

couragerc.net/

Peace,
Ed

 

[Bruised_Reed]

Sure. Not to make a direct comparison to homosexuality but there are people addicted to masturbation and sex outside of marriage and watching porn. Being chaste, gay or straight, does not mean you stop finding attractive people attractive. But to get back to the topic, I recommend:

pfox.org/about_us.html

couragerc.net/

Peace,
Ed

Thanks, but my question was directed specifically to the OP and one particular post. Like I said, I think he and I are in agreement but I wanted to have a little more clarification on his position. I was concerned that it was going to go in the direction of "if the ssa doesn’t go away/ isn’t healed, then that person doesn’t have enough faith and trust in God." While I do believe God can and does heal people of all kinds of things when they pray for healing, sometimes God answers those prayers in a different way than we want or expect. Just wanted to know if the OP believed that also.

 

[Fr_of_Jazz]

The Courage website, if you’re not familiar with it, will be able to provide you with even more information regarding the Catholic approach to the matter. It’s a big topic to broach, but they’ve been doing good things.

Agreed. Courage is a great organization. They cite NARTH too for studies.

 

[marylauravicuna]

If this treatment worked it would be viewed much differently in the medial community. Here me out here. The Exodus CEO said 99.9 % of people do not change. This says a lot.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Spitzer_%28psychiatrist%29

“In 2001, Spitzer delivered a controversial paper, Can Some Gay Men and Lesbians Change Their Sexual Orientation? at the 2001 annual APA meeting; in that paper, Spitzer argued that it is possible that some highly motivated individuals could successfully change their sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual.” Spitzer was chair of the task force of the third edition of the American Psychiatric Association’s Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-III) which was released in 1980. He removed homosexuality from a list of “mental disorders.”

“In a 2005 interview, Spitzer stated that “[m]any colleagues were outraged” following the publication of the study. Spitzer added that “[w]ithin the gay community, there was initially tremendous anger and feeling that I had betrayed them.” When asked whether he would consider a follow-up study, Spitzer said no, and added that he felt **“a little battle fatigue.”**24] While Spitzer has said that he has no way of knowing whether the study participants were being honest,[16] he has also indicated that he believed that the interviewees were being candid with him.[24]” In 2012, he retracted his 2001 article. So the reason the medical community views it differently is because of “battle fatigue”? That’s sad. But its a medical fact that homosexuality directly increases due to childhood sexual abuse, so any successful treatment for childhood sexual abuse should also decrease homosexuality. Even if Exodus or Joseph Nicolosi or NARTH were to completely collapse, if the medical community is able to treat child sexual abuse, they will still treat homosexuality, and “reparative therapy” will still exist even if called by a different name.

However, the medical community is horrible at treating child sexual abuse and a great range of other psychiatric disorders. Currently, medical treatments for most psychiatric disorders caused by childhood problems are found to be more damaging to the patients than being left completely alone. The main reason the medical profession continues to treat is because they see the behavior of these patients as damaging to society, and sees harmful treatments as more kind than prison or solitary confinement. No surprise that the rate of homosexuality in prisons is many times higher than the rate outside of prisons.

 

[marylauravicuna]

Let’s say you show someone who has ONLY homosexual attraction this scale. They’ll say “dang I have the smallest hope for change here”. Instant drop in faith. Instant. And since faith is the substance for that healing there goes your power.

If this treatment worked it would be viewed much differently in the medial community. Here me out here. The Exodus CEO said 99.9 % of people do not change. This says a lot.

Robert Spitzer, the biggest name in the medical community, published an article in 2001 that the treatment worked for some. In 2005, he complained of battle fatigue. In 2012, he retracted the article. Additionally, the medical community, i.e. doctors - psychiatrists, make a lot of money from government reimbursments for SSI/SSDI, medical, etc. The gov isn’t covering this treatment so they aren’t getting paid to treat it so there isn’t the financial incentive for treatment in this case compared to other psychological problems that gov reimburses you for. Also, many medical treatments for childhood problems work worse than no treatment as all, but since the other illnesses, i.e. bipolar or schizophrenia, are seen as harmful to others - the fact that the treatment doesn’t work doesn’t stop the treatment from being seen as more compassionate than no treatment at all - since untreated people might be in prison or solitary confinement in a mental institution.

Alan ChambersThe majority of people that I have met, and I would say the majority meaning 99.9% of them have not experienced a change in their orientation or have gotten to a place where they could say that they could never be tempted or are not tempted in some way or experience some level of same-sex attraction. I think there is a gender issue there, there are some women who have challenged me and said that my orientation or my attractions have changed completely. Those have been few and far between. The vast majority of people that I know will experience some level of same-sex attraction.

So that’s different than saying 99.9% do not change. When cancer is in four or more lymph nodes, the chance of reoccurrence is more than one out of four. When in one to three, the chance of reoccurence is about 16%. Honestly, to make therapy more successful, it should be offered to more people who have very weak homosexuality and not just to those with the hardest cases, i.e. “ONLY homosexual attraction” since based on other diseases, the hardest cases are the most difficult to treat. Its based on psychology. Faith can help, just like faith helps cancer, but reparative therapy is based on same psychology applied to other problems, i.e. EMDR for reparative therapy and for PTSD in war veterans. Faith and science aren’t even supposed to be at odds.

I also think there is a gender issue as Chambers (who has strong same sex attraction) mentioned. “Erotic transference” is common in therapy (even in non-reparative therapists). Most reparative therapists are male (I think). A female with a male reparative therapist would have “erotic transference” and “reparative therapy” achieving the same outcome, while a male with a male reparative therapist would have these two working in the opposite direction.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

Sup Everyone,
So I have been doing a little research about a topic I’ve heard a lot about recently and I want a Catholic perspective.
Do Catholics believe in healing for homosexuals?
I have heard a lot of thought about exgay therapy and I do not agree with it at all. In Judges 2:7 it says God wouldn’t give victory to Isreal until they took away troops. Why? Because God wanted the glory. I think people are putting trust in these therapists and giving them the glory when it should go to God only.
Also only some people are called to celibacy. Trying it without the gift is very damaging and in the words of Jesus himself “impossible” for most.
People say this is there cross to bear but how can u have 100% faith (which is required for healing) if u don’t even know if God wants to heal you? Jesus died for all our healing. He already purchased and died for it. Why would he take that back?
Want to hear everyone’s thought here plz.

Christ died for our sins, the healing he has brought is in his triumph over death and our healing is a restored connection to God through which we can partake in eternal life.

Suffering is good for the soul.