Heartbroken, but hopeful

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JLCecilia

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While DH and I were getting gifts ready Christmas Eve, he saw me stuff his into his stocking and said he thought we weren’t doing gifts for ea. other. I wasn’t surprised, in 8 years, the man hasn’t given gifts for Mother’s Day, birthdays, anniversaries. So, he stayed up after I went to bed and drafted a letter. At least he tried, but it was aweful. And it only compounded the heartache I had from him spending every spare moment w/ his friend from out of state instead of with me. Including Christmas Eve. He’d already been to a movie and dinner the night before, and spent the afternoon w/ him when he got off work. I was grateful that he at least came home to attend Children’s Mass and eat with us, but I was so bummed that he went out on Christmas Eve with his friend, I just sent the kids to bed and passed out on the couch. And then he had the nerves to makes move on me - denied! Not when I didn’t get to bed till after midnight and got up at 530 to a mountain of dirty dishes (now THAT’S what he couldn’ve done for me - a clean kitchen!). He was up for all of 30 minutes and most of the gift opening occurred while he was outside on his smoke break. Then he went back to bed till it was time to get ready for HIS family’s Christmas (when I say HIS familiy, I don’t mean me and the kids).

So, back to the letter. Bottom line? Spend whatever you like, I want you to treat yourself: massage, shopping. Umm, has he not heard me lament about money lately? Plus, I don’t need him to give me permission to do what I already do: take care of myself. I’ve had people tell me before that if opening a physical gift is so important to you, buy it and wrap it yourself, but I just can’t.

So I wrote him a letter back. I wanted to ask him to start coming to mass with us, I wanted to ask him to start helping me in the evenings with dishes and lunch prep. But then I thought, those things would only serve ME. Then I thought of this: institute a family game night w/ me. Instead of me going and getting my hair done (which I’d LOVE to right now), let’s go to the store and let everyone pick out their own game. This would (I hope) serve EVERYONE in our family and help with the QT that is so lacking right now.

I’m hopeful that he’ll give a positive response.

I want so badly to throw that note away: he wrote in the language that we spoke when we were 18 that now makes me cringe. If a guy talked to me that way NOW, he’d get blown off. Trying to move past it.
 
JLCecilia said:

“So I wrote him a letter back. I wanted to ask him to start coming to mass with us, I wanted to ask him to start helping me in the evenings with dishes and lunch prep. But then I thought, those things would only serve ME. Then I thought of this: institute a family game night w/ me. Instead of me going and getting my hair done (which I’d LOVE to right now), let’s go to the store and let everyone pick out their own game. This would (I hope) serve EVERYONE in our family and help with the QT that is so lacking right now.”

Doing A game night for each of the gifts chosen sounds like a fair trade for missing out on A gift. A permanent, life-long change for a single missed present is going to feel unfair, even if it’s something like family time that he should be doing anyway.

In future, talk to him before every occasion where you want a gift of some kind, and make sure he knows what you would like and what you expect well in advance and also the week before. In general, make your expectations clear, and make sure you know what his expectations are, both regard to gifts and with regard to family schedule (i.e. your husband’s meet-up with the out-of-town friend). Don’t be quietly simmering about stuff when you haven’t communicated what you want and don’t sign off on stuff that you are going to deeply resent.

Gift-giving is the Achilles heel of many a man. What I got for Christmas from my husband this year was a $10 waterproof Kindle case for reading in the bath (it’s essentially a really expensive heavyduty Ziploc bag). Now, on the one hand, that was a heck of a way to blow my one Christmas gift of the year from him, but on the other hand, I was so busy at the time that I’m afraid I didn’t take time to explain that I expected more than that. And on a third hand, it’s going to be really useful, as I’d been wanting to be able to safely take electronic devices to the bath. My total unwrappable haul (there were also checks) on Christmas Eve was one nightgown from my MIL (that I’d asked for exactly) and the $10 Kindle case. It may sound a little shallow, but after nearly killing myself with Christmas prep and piling up gifts under the tree for the kids, it felt a little sad that there were just those two items for me. But I hadn’t actually asked for more. Next year!

Best wishes!
 
Gift giving can be really, really hard for most men. I have a wonderful, kind, thoughtful husband who knows me very well–and he still finds picking out a gift for me to be incredibly intimidating!

We’ve decided that for gift occasions–birthdays, anniversaries, Christmas and the like–we’ll each spend approximately $XYZ amount on the other. If either of us wants a particular item, we’ll tell the other and give any appropriate details (size, color, etc). I like being surprised, so I’ll give him a list of 3-4 items I’d like and from which he can choose something. This means he won’t stress out over whether I’ll like something, and I’ll still be surprised. It definitely helps that I can be honest with him about whether or not I want something, as to him the important thing is that I’m happy with a gift, not that it’s a gift he picked out. I.e., if he asked if I’d like a gift card for X amount to a particular store, I can honestly tell him, “that’s a really great idea, but I’m not sure what I’d get there. Could we maybe spend the same amount on (some item I’ve really wanted for a while)?”

I know from your previous posts that you and your DH have a lot of issues in your marriage. Have you considered, though, laying out the “ground rules,” so to speak, about those kinds of occasions and the expenditures on them beforehand? Guys like specifics like that–it means they don’t have to guess! Frankly, as a very literal person, I like them too.

Insofar as the kitchen…again, most guys aren’t going to walk into a dirty kitchen and think “oh, this looks messy, I should clean it.” Actually, I don’t know any who’d think like that–it’s just not the way most of their minds work. If you want him to clean the kitchen, ask for his help, but don’t expect him to automatically know that you want the kitchen cleaned.
 
Wow! I’m sorry you had such a difficult, and disappointing, Christmas. Yeah, I think if I were in that situation that I’d also be disappointed and want more quality time with my spouse, presents to mark special occasions to reassure me that he appreciated what I did and loved me.

I see a lot of threads this time of year about people even in abusive relationships, and thank goodness that doesn’t seem the case here. He seems neglectful, but neglect is not much fun, either.

I don’t know if he’s just gotten so wrapped up in his work and other things that he doesn’t realize how insensitive this can come across or what the deal would be with that. You’re much more in a position to know why he’s like that.

It sounds like he never was much of a gift giver, even from the beginning and that has seemed okay. So, he probably didn’t realize he needed to start now.

There’s a book out on the love languages. I think one I read had 4 love languages, but I heard some people say there’s one out now with 5 “love languages”. Now, it said that we often have one main “language” that tells us we are loved.

For some, it’s “acts of service”. I’m divorced, and my ex-husband actually would get me gifts for my birthday, Christmas, etc., but he would not help me with certain things. Like once, I wanted to put some insulation up in he attic. (I have severe juvenile rheumatoid arthritis), and I asked him if he would hold the ladder. He wouldn’t hold the ladder!

I once wanted to put a ramp to this section where we had sort of like a mother-in-law suite. I had already bought the concrete with my own money. A neighbor agreed to give us some materials, since he wasn’t using them anyway. My ex-husband just needed to do this very tiny section…dig a hole.

Well, he wouldn’t do that! He told the neighbor he “didn’t know how”! The neighbor said it really wasn’t that difficult, that we had done that when we were kids! Still, he just would NOT help.

I once found online how to change out the car handle door. The first version had where I had to take it off. Well, since learned how, without removing that, changed it myself. Anyway, I said, “Can you hold the door a minute?” He didn’t want to! We didn’t have a lot of money, and I realize it would have told me I was loved if he would have helped me with some of these things.

I, also, like gifts. With my family, a sister sent me books, internationally. One got returned, accidentally. She resent all that, but you know what? I would have much preferred she just e-mailed me or got on Skype, gave me some quality time.

Some people don’t even care about gifts, means nothing to them. To others, a gift says, “I love you!” For some, if they don’t get a gift, it means, “I DON’T love you!” Well, that’s at least what they think.

My mother used to tell us she’d rather not receive gifts, that if we’d just all behave ourselves, that would be her gift!

Now, the 4 love languages, from what I can remember was that some people feel loved by the following…gifts…acts of service…words of encouragement and affection and quality time, and …sex. A lot of men fall into the category of sex, I’d say.

Many of us also respond to a combination of the above.

Now, somehow, he doesn’t seem to be getting the message that your love languages are gifts, and acts of service. His is sex.

So, I don’t know whether he doesn’t realize this or doesn’t care. I hope it’s the former and not the latter. I hope he has done this out of ignorance, in which case communication is key.

Yes, tell him that when he gives you gifts, it tells you that he loves you as do acts of service. Tell him that if he can do this, you will feel more loved and probably want to reciprocate! 😉
 
To make matters worse, BIL asked me in front of everyone what I got for Christmas. I was mortified. I think in one respect, he was doing it as a way of calling his brother out and razzing him about needing to be better. DH knows this and he humbly accepts it from this brother b/c they have a good relationship. DH normally speaks up and sort of apologizes for being a ‘loser’ (his words), but I was on my own this time. I just sloughed it off. I said we have a gift cert. to go out after things settle down. I didn’t mention that the gift cert comes from my employer. I got it for DH’s fave place to eat b/c it serves ME to get to out w/ DH and it serves HIM to go where he wants to eat.

Perhaps I can use the opportunity, maybe on the drive to the restaurant, to let him know, gently, how I feel about gift-giving and how best to make it work for both of us. I know we’ve talked about it before, I may just need to remind him or, in your words, set some ground rules and just vow to gently remind him before any given event. I know he ALWAYS gets me a candy basket for Valentine’s, but I could care less for a junky old stuffed animal and I’m normally on a purge from candy after the holidays. $25 he spends on that could easily treat the 2 of us to lunch out.

I should revisit the love languages. I know we went over it on our Engaged Encounter weekend, but I know he doesn’t remember and he’s not going to care about that stuff. I have a hard time with this, though, after hearing Dr. Ray’s take on it. He calls it narcissistic to insist that our if beloved doesn’t love us in the ‘right’ way that we can’t feel loved. Yes, we all need to adapt to one another’s individual needs, but we also need to learn to accept love as others express it, however imperfectly. I need to work on accepting DH’s love in this way too.

I will give him props, though. When we got home, he bargained to do the dishes if I got the kids to clean up the living room and take down the tent in their room. Deal!
 
I LOVE Dr. Ray! However, never getting any gifts, when it means so much to you is probably not helping your marriage any. I don’t think Dr. Ray would mind if you told your husband how much it means to you …to have quality time, acts of acts of service, and gifts, something!

Well, you could also pick one, for now.

A friend of mine, who works in finance, said he has found it easiest when teaching people how to make changes to their finances, to keep the changes very small. He said to think of it sort of like trying to change the motion of a huge boat, that it’s already got its own “momentum”. Trying to change it isn’t easy. So, he thought small step…small changes. Maybe you could start with one issue at a time and focus on that so it doesn’t seem like a huge list that he’d be unwilling to do.

One thing…what’s the most important thing?

Well, there’s also marital counseling. Now, I know you probably don’t feel like you’re headed for divorce right now. At least some people could probably benefit from counseling early on, when problems are small, rather than waiting until they are being served with divorced papers.

That’s another idea. May not be appropriate to your situation. I don’t know. Well, if not, perhaps it’d be more applicable to another reader on this thread who is looking for options.
 
One more thing, before I forget. I went to marital counseling for a time, and one thing I do remember that the counselor told us was that ideally, when we brought up one “negative”, to try to compensate that with at least 5 positives.

So, he was trying to say when there are problems in a relationship, it’s easy to focus on the problems…forget to compliment or recognize the good things. That’s why he gave us a formula…for every complaint…give at least 5 compliments.

Although, that relationship ended in divorce, I thought that was excellent advice on relationships, in general.

Also, if your husband ever does do what you want…gives you a gift, gives you quality time, helps you with dishes, remember to thank him and compliment him. It’s a form of positive reinforcement.

Ideally, counselors encourage us to strive for positive reinforcement over negative reinforcement.
 
JLCecilia said:

“I know he ALWAYS gets me a candy basket for Valentine’s, but I could care less for a junky old stuffed animal and I’m normally on a purge from candy after the holidays. $25 he spends on that could easily treat the 2 of us to lunch out.”

Tell him that you want a lunch out and tell him where you want to go. And then ask him what you can do for him for Valentine’s.

“He calls it narcissistic to insist that our if beloved doesn’t love us in the ‘right’ way that we can’t feel loved.”

How about, if our beloved doesn’t love us in the right way, we DON’T feel loved?
 
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