Heaven is purchased by faith, love, etc

[Jim_Baur]

Might one be able to say that Heaven is purchased by faith, hope, love, works, perverance et cetera?

We trade, barter or buy heaven with the gifts God gives us. We trade the world and hell for heaven with grace.

Just a question or idea.

 

[Todd_Easton]

Heaven should be seen as a priceless gift, a gift that is given only after the completion of certain conditions, the conditions you mention: the exercise of faith, hope, charity, good works, perseverence, etc. However, the inherent value of these conditions is infinitely less than the inherent value of heaven. Thus, it is not an equitable trade. It is kind of like the mother who gives her child a piece of fruit to eat and then asks the child if she might have a bite of the child’s fruit, saying that if the child shares his fruit with her, she will give the child everything his heart desires in return.

 

[Mystophilus]

Todd Easton:

the inherent value of these conditions is infinitely less than the inherent value of heaven… it is not an equitable trade.

The idea of trade implies that God needs something from us. I believe that God is omnipotent, which means that God never needs anything. Those good works are for our benefit, not God’s.

One thing to consider is that Heaven is often regarded as a return to the Garden of Eden. The gift came first.

 

[InSearchOfGod]

Jim Baur:

Might one be able to say that Heaven is purchased by faith, hope, love, works, perverance et cetera?

If Heaven could be bought, no one could afford it. It is way beyond our ability to buy. It truly is a gift made out of God’s love for us we can’t even comprehend. It is certainly good to give back to God, but nothing can match what He has given us.

 

[Todd_Easton]

The idea of trade implies that God needs something from us. I believe that God is omnipotent, which means that God never needs anything. Those good works are for our benefit, not God’s.

[/quote]

Perhaps “Thus, it is not an equitable trade” was a poor word choice; maybe “Thus, it is not an equitable exchange” would have been better…

It is true that God does not need anything from us but God, who “first loved us” (1 John 4:19), desires that we love him and he desires that we love our neighbor. It is true that God does not need our good works but God desires that we do good works because, as you say, our good works ultimately benefit us by increasing our capacity to love and enjoy God in heaven. However, it seems to me, and correct me if I am wrong, that we should strive do good works out of obedience and love for God, without regard to how they might ultimately benefit us. We should strive to do good works simply because God created us “for good works … that we should walk in them” (Ephesians 2:10) and because good works are our “duty” (Luke 17:10).

 

[flamingsword]

Might one be able to say that Heaven is purchased by faith, hope, love, works, perverance et cetera?

We trade, barter or buy heaven with the gifts God gives us. We trade the world and hell for heaven with grace.

Just a question or idea.

Its actually a heresy. Pelagianism

 

[Jim_Baur]

The “currency” is not our’s, but a grace or gift from Jesus Christ. He paid the price, but gives us the gift. I suppose the better word at the time of Jesus Christ would be barter or trade.

Buried in Field Found

St. Matthew 13: 44 “The kingdom of heaven is like a treasure buried in a field, which a person finds and hides again, and out of joy goes and sells all that he has and buys that field.”

Pearl of Great Price

St. Matthew 13: 45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant searching for fine pearls. 46 When he finds a pearl of great price, he goes and sells (barters or trades) all that he has and buys it.

 

[Evan]

We do give God something for our entry ‘ticket’ to heaven. Every day at mass the priest says

In memory of his death and resurrection, we offer you, Father, this life-giving bread, this saving cup.

That is what we offer God that gets us through one of the 12 gates into heaven. (one for each of the apostles).

 

[mspencer]

We should be grateful to God as to a Father who gives us such things out of love for us. Perhaps we approach God with love and faith, but these are supernatural gifts that God gave us in the first place. Nor is God obligated to give us heaven, and in fact until Christ there was no one in heaven, but the Father sent His only Son so we could go there too. Everything is a gift to us.

 

[Mystophilus]

Todd Easton:

However, it seems to me, and correct me if I am wrong, that we should strive do good works out of obedience and love for God, without regard to how they might ultimately benefit us. We should strive to do good works simply because God created us “for good works … that we should walk in them” (Ephesians 2:10) and because good works are our “duty” (Luke 17:10).

I certainly agree regarding the duty, although I would like to separate that from the idea of loving God.

(Please excuse me while I put on my asbestos coat.)

I think that we should do what is right because it is right, and for no other reason. My preference for separating that from love is the fact that I cannot separate self-interest from love: every good thing that the Lover does for the Beloved pleases the Lover, even if it is detrimental to him/her. Thus, the Lover benefits from the act of love, even if it is ostensibly self-sacrificial.

I take Luke 17:10 very much to heart, because I have seen too many people trying to learn “the rules” so that they can “ensure” their salvation. Good works done in order to earn one’s way into Heaven are, I think, no less beneficial to others, but worthless to oneself. Salvation comes via the sovereign will of a God who has, in the Bible, demonstrated a propensity for irreverence towards religious ordinances.

For those who do not have the text on hand:
""Suppose one of you had a servant plowing or looking after the sheep. Would he say to the servant when he comes in from the field, ‘Come along now and sit down to eat’? Would he not rather say, ‘Prepare my supper, get yourself ready and wait on me while I eat and drink; after that you may eat and drink’? Would he thank the servant because he did what he was told to do? So you also, when you have done everything you were told to do, should say, ‘We are unworthy servants; we have only done our duty.’ "(Luke 17:7-10)

 

[Steven_Merten]

Evan:

We do give God something for our entry ‘ticket’ to heaven. Every day at mass the priest says That is what we offer God that gets us through one of the 12 gates into heaven. (one for each of the apostles).

Hello Evan,

Correction!

One gate for every tribe of Israel.

One course of stone for every Apostle.

NAB REV 21:9 The New Jerusalem.

One of the seven angels who held the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the woman who is the bride of the Lamb.” He carried me away in spirit to the top of a very high mountain and showed me the holy city of Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God. It gleamed with the splendor of God. The city had the radiance of a precious jewel that sparkled like a diamond. Its wall, massive and high, had twelve gates at which twelve angles were stationed. Twelve names were written on the gates, the names of the twelve tribes of Israel. There were three gates facing east, three north, three south, and three west. The wall of the city had twelve courses of stones as its foundation, on which were written the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

Peace in Christ,
Steven

 

[Steven_Merten]

Mystophilus:

I certainly agree regarding the duty, although I would like to separate that from the idea of loving God.

(Please excuse me while I put on my asbestos coat.)

I think that we should do what is right because it is right, and for no other reason. My preference for separating that from love is the fact that I cannot separate self-interest from love:

Hello Mystophilus,

God tells us that obedience is love. Therefore I do not think man should separate what God has equated.

INT 1JO 5:3

This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome.INT JOH 14:15

"If you love me, you will obey what I command."
**INT JOH 14:23 **

Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.”
NAB JOH 15:22

“If I had not come to them and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; now, however, their sin cannot be excused. To hate me is to hate my Father. Had I not performed such works among them as no one has ever done before, they would not be guilty of sin; but as it is, they have seen, and they go on hating me and my Father.”
NAB JOH 14:21

“He who obeys the commandments he has from me is the man who loves me; and he who loves me will be loved by my Father. I too will love him and reveal myself to him.”

NAB DEU 5:6

For I, the LORD, your God, am a jealous God, inflicting punishments for their fathers’ wickedness on the children of those who hate me, down to the third and fourth generation but bestowing mercy, down to the thousandth generation, on the children of those who love me and keep my commandments.NAB DEU 6:1

"These then are the commandments, the statutes and decrees which the LORD, your God, has ordered that you be taught to observe in the land into which you are crossing for conquest, so that you and your son and your grandson may fear the LORD, your God, and keep, throughout the days of your lives, all his statutes and commandments which I enjoin on you, and thus have long life. Hear then, Israel, and be careful to observe them, that you may grow and prosper the more in keeping with the promise of the LORD, the God of your fathers, to give you a land flowing with milk and honey." The great commandment. Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD alone! Therefore, you shall love the LORD, your God, with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength. Take to heart these words which I enjoin on you today. Drill them into your children. Speak of them at home and abroad, whether you are busy or at rest. Bind them at your wrist as a sign and let them be as a pendant on your forehead. Write them on the doorposts of your houses and on your gates.

 

[Steven_Merten]

The only way to heaven for we, the undeserved sinners, is through the blood of Jesus. Jesus confirms God’s covenant given to Abraham in that those who love and obey God will enter life through Him. We know that Not all go through Christ’s payment of blood into heavan. Jesus and the Father clearly state that it is those who love God through obedience to the commandments who will enter into life through Jesus payment of blood on the cross. We can never, “pay” or “earn” heaven through works. We can love God through works and it is those who love God who go to heaven through Jesus according to God.

NAB DEU 30:15 The Choice before Israel.“Here then, **I have today set before you life and prosperity, death and doom. If you obey the commandments of the LORD, your God, which I enjoin on you today, loving him, and walking in his ways, and keeping his commandments, statutes and decrees, you will live **and grow numerous, and the LORD, your God, will bless you in the land you are entering to occupy.”

NAB MAT 19:16

"Teacher, what good must I do to possess everlasting life?" He answered, “Why do you question me about what is good? There is One who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” “Which ones?” he asked. Jesus replied “You shall not kill”; ‘You shall not commit adultery’; ‘You shall not steal’; ‘You shall not bear false witness’; ‘Honor your father and mother’; and ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’"NAB SIR 15:11 Man’s Free Will.

Say not: “It was God’s doing that I fell away”; for what he hates he does not do. Say not: “It was he who set me astray”; for he has no need of wicked man. Abominable wickedness the LORD hates, he does not let it befall those who fear him. When God, in the beginning, created man, he made him subject to his own free choice. If you choose you can keep the commandments; it is loyalty to do his will. There are set before you fire and water; to whichever you choose, stretch forth your hand. **Before man are life and death, whichever he chooses shall be given him.**NAB DEU 6:1

“These then are the commandments, the statutes and decrees which the LORD, your God, has ordered that you be taught to observe in the land into which you are crossing for conquest, so that you and your son and your grandson may fear the LORD, your God, and keep, throughout the days of your lives, all his statutes and commandments which I enjoin on you, and thus have long life. Hear then, Israel, and be careful to observe them, that you may grow and prosper the more in keeping with the promise of the LORD, the God of your fathers, to give you a land flowing with milk and honey.” The great commandment. Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD alone! Therefore, you shall love the LORD, your God, with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength. Take to heart these words which I enjoin on you today. Drill them into your children. Speak of them at home and abroad, whether you are busy or at rest. Bind them at your wrist as a sign and let them be as a pendant on your forehead. Write them on the doorposts of your houses and on your gates.NAB LUK 10:25

On one occasion a lawyer stood up to pose him this problem: "Teacher, what must I do to inherit everlasting life?" Jesus answered him: “What is written in the law? How do you read it?”

He replied:
**“You shall love the Lord your God **
**with all your heart, **
**with all your soul, **
**with all your strength, **
**and with all your mind; **
**and your neighbor as yourself.” **
Jesus said, “You have answered correctly. Do this and you shall live.”

NAB JOH 5:27

"The Father has given over to him power to pass judgment because he is Son of Man; no need for you to be surprised at this, for an hour is coming in which all those in their tombs shall hear his voice and come forth. Those who have done right shall rise to live; the evildoers shall rise to be damned."

 

[Mystophilus]

Steven Merten:

God tells us that obedience is love. Therefore I do not think man should separate what God has equated…

INT JOH 14:15

"If you love me, you will obey what I command."

What I am saying is not that we should not do what God tells us to, but that we should do what is right regardless of whether or not God tells us to.

I do not think that God’s command should be our primary reason for doing what is right. Instead, the inherent righteousness of the act itself ought to be all the motivation that we need.

If we act out of obedience, we are acting out of self-interest. With human beings, this will naturally tend towards us doing the minimum necessary to fulfil the requirements of the rules. It also allows us to refuse help to the needy on the basis that such help would contravene one of our precious rules (e.g., healing on the Sabbath, condoms for Africa).