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[Like]

No, Pope John Paul II never said the consecration was done. I don’t even know where Cardinal Ratzinger ever said it was done.

And people like Christopher Ferrara, who write on this subject, does not call Pope John Paul II or Sister Lucy a liar.

fatimapriest.com/contro07.html

God bless.

Brennan, I really don’t understand why you resist the truth & will take the word of these Fr. Gruner fan characters! Why do you not trust the Vatican, JP II B 16 & Sr. Lucia herself?!? You say Fr. Gruner and this others don’t call the popes liars, what do you call their statements then?!? I’ll post some more links but I think you and some others here would not be convinced unless the Blessed Mother herself were to appear to you!
Here’s one from Zenit stating Sr. Lucia that Russia was Consecrated.
zenit.org/article-12246?l=english

Here’s one Stating Russia says they have been converted. zenit.org/article-12272?l=english

Did you know the year (1984) of the consecration, we witnessed the opening of Russia to the West and the fall of the Berlin Wall?

 

[Brennan_Doherty]

Brennan, I really don’t understand why you resist the truth & will take the word of these Fr. Gruner fan characters! Why do you not trust the Vatican, JP II B 16 & Sr. Lucia herself?!? You say Fr. Gruner and this others don’t call the popes liars, what do you call their statements then?!? I’ll post some more links but I think you and some others here would not be convinced unless the Blessed Mother herself were to appear to you!
Here’s one from Zenit stating Sr. Lucia that Russia was Consecrated.
zenit.org/article-12246?l=english

Here’s one Stating Russia says they have been converted. zenit.org/article-12272?l=english

Did you know the year (1984) of the consecration, we witnessed the opening of Russia to the West and the fall of the Berlin Wall?

Hi Like,

Thanks for your post. To put it simply, I am not taking the word of anyone.

The reasons I don’t believe Russia was consecrated in 1984 are primarily that 1. Russia was not mentioned. 2. Russia has in no sense of the term been converted to the Catholic faith.

The reasons for not believing the full Third Secret has been revealed are too lengthy to go into in this post. I would tell people to go to Fatima.org and read about it but I realize that as soon as people see it’s associated with Fr. Gruner they will quite often dismiss it, even if (as in most cases) the article(s) are not written by him.

I think the case of the Italian journalist Socci is interesting because he actually started out believing and attempting to defend the idea that the full Third Secret has been revealed. Through further research on his own he came to conclude that that was not the case.

God bless.

 

[Shoshana]

Brennan, I really don’t understand why you resist the truth & will take the word of these Fr. Gruner fan characters! Why do you not trust the Vatican, JP II B 16 & Sr. Lucia herself?!? You say Fr. Gruner and this others don’t call the popes liars, what do you call their statements then?!? I’ll post some more links but I think you and some others here would not be convinced unless the Blessed Mother herself were to appear to you!
Here’s one from Zenit stating Sr. Lucia that Russia was Consecrated.
zenit.org/article-12246?l=english

Here’s one Stating Russia says they have been converted. zenit.org/article-12272?l=english

Did you know the year (1984) of the consecration, we witnessed the opening of Russia to the West and the fall of the Berlin Wall?

And it is at this point that we should keep a wary eye on Russia as things are unfolding in a manner that may not be so good…

 

[Our_Refuge]

John Paul II and Ratinzger have both said that the consecration was done and the third secret was revealed, and so any claim to the contrary is an accusation of lying against these men.

That is why I cannot possibly accept the claim that the third secret is still a secret. As I said, there is evidencce both sides can throw out all day that is tough for the other side to answer. The only easy question is, 'would John Paul have lied about this?'

In my opinion they are not lying they are simply withholding all of the truth.
In 1984 Cardinal Ratzinger was asked why the third secret hasn’t been revealed. He said:
“ To publish the third secret would mean exposing the Church to the danger of sensationalism, exploitation of the content.”
{ Ratzinger Report}
Yet 16 years later it was released. The released version is boring and uneventful. There is nothing sensational about it.
In 1980 Pope John Paul was asked about the third secret:

"In that private gathering, the Pope spoke of a “troubling”
message, of predictions of "oceans flooding entire continents,
people annihilated suddenly, by the millions, from one instant to
the next…“We must be well prepared,” the Pope said, “for great trials in the near future, which can even require the sacrifice of our
lives.” **And he explained why he had not made the message public: **“If a message announces that millions of people are going to die, one doesn’t really wish to have it made public. Many want to know it only out of curiosity, but they forget that knowledge brings responsibility.”
ewtn.com/library/ISSUES/ENDNEAR.TXT

That is why I believe only a part of the third secret has been revealed. As the Pope said, with “knowledge comes responsibility” The Vatican has decided that for our own good we should not be told. That doesn’t mean they are lying, it means that they are not telling the whole truth.

 

[Lazerlike42]

In my opinion they are not lying they are simply withholding all of the truth.
In 1984 Cardinal Ratzinger was asked why the third secret hasn’t been revealed. He said:
“ To publish the third secret would mean exposing the Church to the danger of sensationalism, exploitation of the content.”
{ Ratzinger Report}
Yet 16 years later it was released. The released version is boring and uneventful. There is nothing sensational about it.
In 1980 Pope John Paul was asked about the third secret:

"In that private gathering, the Pope spoke of a “troubling”
message, of predictions of "oceans flooding entire continents,
people annihilated suddenly, by the millions, from one instant to
the next…“We must be well prepared,” the Pope said, “for great trials in the near future, which can even require the sacrifice of our
lives.” **And he explained why he had not made the message public: **“If a message announces that millions of people are going to die, one doesn’t really wish to have it made public. Many want to know it only out of curiosity, but they forget that knowledge brings responsibility.”
ewtn.com/library/ISSUES/ENDNEAR.TXT

That is why I believe only a part of the third secret has been revealed. As the Pope said, with “knowledge comes responsibility” The Vatican has decided that for our own good we should not be told. That doesn’t mean they are lying, it means that they are not telling the whole truth.

That quote is said to have come from a supposedly private meeting and was supposedly tape recorded. I don’t see any evidence of this, however. It seems like a conspiracy theory to me. It also doesn’t make sense. This is supposed to be one of the most secrative pieces of information in the Church. It simply makes no sense that John Paul II would simply have let it slip… if the quote about floods and millions dying were true and he didn’t want to cause alarm, he would never have mentioned it at all!

Cardinal Bertone has called the conspiracy theories “pure fantasy.” Monsignor Capovilla, who witnessed John XXIII open the secret, has said that what was released by the Vatican was exactly what he read then.

The part of the article that quotes from an unproven and illogical private revelation about the secret is quoted, but these parts are not:

[Ratzinger] began his reply by denying that the Third Secret had anything to do with the Apocalypse or the end of the world.

Ratzinger then said speculation about the supposed “Third Secret” is not part of a healthy devotion to the Blessed Mother.

…

Ratzinger then added, in what seemed very close to a revelation of the contents of the “Third Secret”: “To all those who are curious, I would say that they should be certain that the Virgin does not engage in sensationalism; she does not create fear. She does not present apocalyptic visions, but guides people to her Son. And in this we have the essential (of the secret).”

Jimmy Akin puts it best:

Any accusation to the contrary is simply not credible. John Paul II clearly believes that the third secret of Fatima is crucial to understanding his own pontificate. He is specially invested in the third secret, and, if he says that he has released the full text of the document, then he has. No one with an accurate appraisal of the moral character of John Paul II could think otherwise.

• catholic.com/thisrock/2000/0010fea1.asp

Cardinal Ratzinger wrote, in his theological commentary released with the secret: “A careful reading of the text of the so-called third “secret” of Fatima, ***published here in its entirety ***long after the fact and by decision of the Holy Father, will probably prove disappointing or surprising after all the speculation it has stirred.”

Any claim that the third secret has not been revealed is a claim that Cardinal Ratzinger lied in an official document of the Church. It is not a claim that he erred, but that he lied. I, for one, do not believe that a lie is capable of being put forth in an official document of Holy Mother Church. It’s that simple. One can read all the conspiracy theories about John Paul saying X Y or Z, or one can listen to some of the more reasonable and thoughtful claims that the third secret has not been revealed entirely. To this, one can respond with difficult questions for those who believe the secret is still a secret. In the end, the only question is, did Cardinal Ratzinger lie in an official Church document, and did John Paul II allow him to lie and take part in that sin of deceit?

 

[Like]

That quote is said to have come from a supposedly private meeting and was supposedly tape recorded. I don’t see any evidence of this, however. It seems like a conspiracy theory to me. It also doesn’t make sense. This is supposed to be one of the most secrative pieces of information in the Church. It simply makes no sense that John Paul II would simply have let it slip… if the quote about floods and millions dying were true and he didn’t want to cause alarm, he would never have mentioned it at all!

Cardinal Bertone has called the conspiracy theories “pure fantasy.” Monsignor Capovilla, who witnessed John XXIII open the secret, has said that what was released by the Vatican was exactly what he read then.

The part of the article that quotes from an unproven and illogical private revelation about the secret is quoted, but these parts are not:

Jimmy Akin puts it best:

• catholic.com/thisrock/2000/0010fea1.asp

Cardinal Ratzinger wrote, in his theological commentary released with the secret: “A careful reading of the text of the so-called third “secret” of Fatima, ***published here in its entirety ***long after the fact and by decision of the Holy Father, will probably prove disappointing or surprising after all the speculation it has stirred.”

Any claim that the third secret has not been revealed is a claim that Cardinal Ratzinger lied in an official document of the Church. It is not a claim that he erred, but that he lied. I, for one, do not believe that a lie is capable of being put forth in an official document of Holy Mother Church. It’s that simple. One can read all the conspiracy theories about John Paul saying X Y or Z, or one can listen to some of the more reasonable and thoughtful claims that the third secret has not been revealed entirely. To this, one can respond with difficult questions for those who believe the secret is still a secret. In the end, the only question is, did Cardinal Ratzinger lie in an official Church document, and did John Paul II allow him to lie and take part in that sin of deceit?

[SIGN]AMEN!!![/SIGN]

Thanks Lazerlike
We have been through this so many times & I FIRMLY believe some others here would not be convinced unless the Blessed Mother herself were to appear to them and declare that the 3rd. secret is fulfilled!

One more thing…There was much more to the message of Our Lady of Fatima.
Such as…All need to repent and to say the Rosary for peace and the conversion of poor sinners! Also, Sr. Lucia said that she ON HER OWN withheld the secret till 1960 because she thought it would be understood better (or something to that effect).
I am drowning in media concerning Fatima, in books, videos & Internet on an old computer. I will try to locate my last statement & post here for confirmation.
Peace & God Bless!

 

[Like]

I’m sorry, it has come to my attention that in most of my post on this forum that I tend to attack rather than explain or put forth my opinions.

For this I sincerely apologize!

In the future I will attempt to correct that bad habit.

 

[Shoshana]

[sign]Also, Sr. Lucia said that she ON HER OWN withheld the secret till 1960 **because she thought it would be understood better **(or something to that effect).
IPeace & God Bless!

Make sure all the versions are posted.