S
Spyridon
Guest
Small t tradition says he’s in hell.
Definitively the Church is silent.
Definitively the Church is silent.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
R
ratio1
Guest
Ok thanks. That’s probably why I was a bit vague on this issue.
Yes I do understand your feelings from your experience. Hitler is about as evil as you can get as a human person.
Yes I do understand your feelings from your experience. Hitler is about as evil as you can get as a human person.
R
ratio1
Guest
And I should clarify before. I’m probably 99% certain Hitler is in hell.
Last edited:
A
AlNg
Guest
Was the Versailles treaty fair to Germany?I’m a huge WWII buff
B
BrunoMaria
Guest
The issue here is not if Pol Pot, Hitler or Idi Amin is in hell, but if hell is a lie or rality, and here; if God rules hell or Satan does.
Evil does not simply exist in hell (as it does in the world) but evil rules all and everything in hell.
Satan and his demons do. Not God.
The earth is God’s property. Though God gave his humans a free will to act either way. Yes, evil so of course exists in the world, as Satan is the prince of the world. Because of the fact, that God doesn’t let His Holy Will rule the world as He does in heaven, Jesus Christ recommended to pray: Your Will be done as it’s done in Heaven.
If God alone would rule the world, His holy will would exclude any evil. Not just so, but Jesus Christ would not have recommended, that we pray that God’s will be done here on earth - which is not done yet, but would be done if God alone ruled the world. God keeps the world, but doesn’t rule it. Sin would be as unknown as it is in heaven, if God would. God helps those, who ask God for His presence and help. Still, Satan influences and rules all, who deny God. War lords, atheists, blasphemies. They all constitute the great majority of the earth. Few only will be able to pass that narrow door.
As God’s will and ruling of the world has not yet come fully on earth, we pray as Christ recommended YOUR WILL BE DONE.
But ok - you go on discussing your off-rail issues, and I’m off this subject now.
CU
Bruno
Evil does not simply exist in hell (as it does in the world) but evil rules all and everything in hell.
Satan and his demons do. Not God.
The earth is God’s property. Though God gave his humans a free will to act either way. Yes, evil so of course exists in the world, as Satan is the prince of the world. Because of the fact, that God doesn’t let His Holy Will rule the world as He does in heaven, Jesus Christ recommended to pray: Your Will be done as it’s done in Heaven.
If God alone would rule the world, His holy will would exclude any evil. Not just so, but Jesus Christ would not have recommended, that we pray that God’s will be done here on earth - which is not done yet, but would be done if God alone ruled the world. God keeps the world, but doesn’t rule it. Sin would be as unknown as it is in heaven, if God would. God helps those, who ask God for His presence and help. Still, Satan influences and rules all, who deny God. War lords, atheists, blasphemies. They all constitute the great majority of the earth. Few only will be able to pass that narrow door.
As God’s will and ruling of the world has not yet come fully on earth, we pray as Christ recommended YOUR WILL BE DONE.
But ok - you go on discussing your off-rail issues, and I’m off this subject now.
CU
Bruno
S
Spyridon
Guest
IMO, no absolutely not.Was the Versailles treaty fair to Germany?
The Versaille treaty was integral to the rise of Hitler - without it, there’s a chance he may have stayed an unknown Viennese street artist.
B
BrunoMaria
Guest
as to „God rules the hell“:
Having the ruling authority over it all - YES. But as to rule THERE, - NO. Not after creating this deserted place - which might have been as beautiful as all creation, but became an inferno when God cast all condemned Angels there who now where demons. And a no too, for ruling hell from heaven. If God ruled hell, it would be a recreation resort.
But let me explain:
Yes, the Psalm say: „If we descend to the lowest parts of Hell - God is still there. God has to rule there if He goes there.
That of course is a very much different thing, than the here in CAF read „God rules the Hell“. Of course Christ ruled the hell when He was there, and He would of course if He’d ever again go there, as God of course is prior to all. But as the Creed tells us, God (in Jesus Christ) was once only in hell. As to the Psalm: IF I’d ever go to the recalled „lowest place in hell" God would be there, is a metaphor; for non of us ever will go to the lowest place in hell. The metaphor tells, that God is everywhere where you are - if you believe in Jesus Christ. The lowest pit, the filthiest lonely prison in far off nowhere; God is there with you.
Now, I might have a language-problem in comprehending diverse English meanings of „to rule“. In any case, it’s done the way the ruling party executes their system - lovingly, or full with greedy hatred.
In the English word TO RULE, seems to lay different meanings. In our case an absolute owning were it’s up to the owner to do with it whatever he likes, like a dictator who misrules his country to the horror of it’s inhabitants, or even worse yet; a slave-dealer.
About Christ descending to hell, even apologetics are unsure if it really was hell, or just purgatory where Christ rescued those who couldn’t get into heaven before Christ’s salvation.
Let’s simply stick to our Creed, where we confess; He „descendent" to hell“ (not purgatory). For that view is much more realistic and logic - as almost all of the Church’s teaching. We know that God is absolute justness. If all who died before Christ’s resurrection had to stay in Purgatory - which is supposed to be much like hell, then this would be unjust to those having been born before Christ’s resurrection and had probably stayed there thousands of years. Unthinkable and not God’s justice! Hence they where in heaven - a heaven without beatific view of God. On „Abraham’s bosom“ as we learn in Luke 16.
Having the ruling authority over it all - YES. But as to rule THERE, - NO. Not after creating this deserted place - which might have been as beautiful as all creation, but became an inferno when God cast all condemned Angels there who now where demons. And a no too, for ruling hell from heaven. If God ruled hell, it would be a recreation resort.
But let me explain:
Yes, the Psalm say: „If we descend to the lowest parts of Hell - God is still there. God has to rule there if He goes there.
That of course is a very much different thing, than the here in CAF read „God rules the Hell“. Of course Christ ruled the hell when He was there, and He would of course if He’d ever again go there, as God of course is prior to all. But as the Creed tells us, God (in Jesus Christ) was once only in hell. As to the Psalm: IF I’d ever go to the recalled „lowest place in hell" God would be there, is a metaphor; for non of us ever will go to the lowest place in hell. The metaphor tells, that God is everywhere where you are - if you believe in Jesus Christ. The lowest pit, the filthiest lonely prison in far off nowhere; God is there with you.
Now, I might have a language-problem in comprehending diverse English meanings of „to rule“. In any case, it’s done the way the ruling party executes their system - lovingly, or full with greedy hatred.
In the English word TO RULE, seems to lay different meanings. In our case an absolute owning were it’s up to the owner to do with it whatever he likes, like a dictator who misrules his country to the horror of it’s inhabitants, or even worse yet; a slave-dealer.
About Christ descending to hell, even apologetics are unsure if it really was hell, or just purgatory where Christ rescued those who couldn’t get into heaven before Christ’s salvation.
Let’s simply stick to our Creed, where we confess; He „descendent" to hell“ (not purgatory). For that view is much more realistic and logic - as almost all of the Church’s teaching. We know that God is absolute justness. If all who died before Christ’s resurrection had to stay in Purgatory - which is supposed to be much like hell, then this would be unjust to those having been born before Christ’s resurrection and had probably stayed there thousands of years. Unthinkable and not God’s justice! Hence they where in heaven - a heaven without beatific view of God. On „Abraham’s bosom“ as we learn in Luke 16.
B
BrunoMaria
Guest
Whether or not the more or less evil rest already was in hell, or rather stays „dead“ R.I.P. until Last Judgement - we don’t really know, but it doesn’t really matter. However, the Bible states dead raising of their graves when Jesus died on the cross. Sure these weren’t good deceased, for those believers aren’t ever in graves.
Much more real is, that Jesus Christ of course descended to hell as the Creed tells. There he proved and demonstrated His victory, His universal power AND RULING over all there is. Showing hell once and for all, where the might and the power and the glory lays, and that God can at any time do as He decides with hell. A totally absent ruling.
Presently and until after last Judgement, Jesus rules over all in heaven and on earth. When Jesus said in Mat 28,18 that all might and power had been given to Him, it doesn’t mean that He now actively also rules hell being visible from the distance. Not even in a remote way God would. Why should God rule that lost, stinking, filthy and infernal place hell! No! And besides; then the talk of illiterate Christians would be true, that God is responsible for all the torment in hell, which of course is rubbish. Nothing bad originates in God. God, way more powerful than hell and even owning hell, doesn’t rule it, and God set hell very far off heaven. Though God is able to smash hell into the most infinitive corner of the universe - so far, that it won’t even come back to mind (Rev 14,14–21,1 Rev 19,11–21) God doesn’t rule hell. The Prince of the World does; Satan, the King of hell does, ever since God created hell for Satan and his legions.
We all wish ever so dearly, and pray daily, that God’s will rules the world. The Lord’s prayer demonstrates, that God does not yet rule the world, for Jesus said; „pray YOUR WILL BE DONE! God doesn’t yet, but instead God leaves all to us, to our free will. Our free will of course - since a majority lives without God, causes all the miseries in our world. All the wars going on presently as any time before, all the evil deeds and atrocities done under Satan’s influence. Satan, who definitely rules the infernal hell and still is Prince of the World. God, though we pray that HIS WILL BE DONE as it’s done in heaven, sure stays off of any intervening in hell. But God also doesn’t hinder hellish people to do and commit malicious atrocities. Therefore we got a lot of atheists who say: There is no God, because if there was, He wouldn’t let them do this!
But we don’t know how many more horrid things had happened, if God had not stopped them being committed. Only real believers know, how often God touched them. The world is not allowed to obviously see God’s countless interferences with very small as very big things. If God’s interferences were obvious, there were no disbelief as God’s existence would be obvious. The earth as probation-place would be redundant.
Yours
Bruno
Much more real is, that Jesus Christ of course descended to hell as the Creed tells. There he proved and demonstrated His victory, His universal power AND RULING over all there is. Showing hell once and for all, where the might and the power and the glory lays, and that God can at any time do as He decides with hell. A totally absent ruling.
Presently and until after last Judgement, Jesus rules over all in heaven and on earth. When Jesus said in Mat 28,18 that all might and power had been given to Him, it doesn’t mean that He now actively also rules hell being visible from the distance. Not even in a remote way God would. Why should God rule that lost, stinking, filthy and infernal place hell! No! And besides; then the talk of illiterate Christians would be true, that God is responsible for all the torment in hell, which of course is rubbish. Nothing bad originates in God. God, way more powerful than hell and even owning hell, doesn’t rule it, and God set hell very far off heaven. Though God is able to smash hell into the most infinitive corner of the universe - so far, that it won’t even come back to mind (Rev 14,14–21,1 Rev 19,11–21) God doesn’t rule hell. The Prince of the World does; Satan, the King of hell does, ever since God created hell for Satan and his legions.
We all wish ever so dearly, and pray daily, that God’s will rules the world. The Lord’s prayer demonstrates, that God does not yet rule the world, for Jesus said; „pray YOUR WILL BE DONE! God doesn’t yet, but instead God leaves all to us, to our free will. Our free will of course - since a majority lives without God, causes all the miseries in our world. All the wars going on presently as any time before, all the evil deeds and atrocities done under Satan’s influence. Satan, who definitely rules the infernal hell and still is Prince of the World. God, though we pray that HIS WILL BE DONE as it’s done in heaven, sure stays off of any intervening in hell. But God also doesn’t hinder hellish people to do and commit malicious atrocities. Therefore we got a lot of atheists who say: There is no God, because if there was, He wouldn’t let them do this!
But we don’t know how many more horrid things had happened, if God had not stopped them being committed. Only real believers know, how often God touched them. The world is not allowed to obviously see God’s countless interferences with very small as very big things. If God’s interferences were obvious, there were no disbelief as God’s existence would be obvious. The earth as probation-place would be redundant.
Yours
Bruno
- Status
- Not open for further replies.