Hello everyone, preventing suffering

[Lavlab]

This is my first post on CAF! Hooray!

I have a question. I have been seeing plenty of posts about women who terminated their pregnancy to prevent their child for suffering, as their child would be suffering for the few moments of their life then die. Many say that what they did was a heroic choice. I quickly dismissed those ads/posts as I was looking for recipes. So heres my question: If they baby would die and be suffering after a few hours of birth, would terminating be a sin? I noticed there were many Catholics who have done that, and refuse to go to confession as they loved the baby. Anyways, please give all your opinions and thoughts!

 

[edward_george1]

Yes, it would still be a sin. You cannot do a moral evil so that good might result from it. It is always evil to take the life of a child. There are no circumstances under which this might be allowed. Where do you draw the line? If you know someone will suffer and die at any other point in their life, why not put them down then?

-Fr ACEGC

 

[Lavlab]

@edward_george1 thank you for your answer. Your reasoning about “If you know someone will suffer and die at any other point in their life, why not put them down then?” was excellent for your answer. Thanks for helping clear things up.

 

[PennyinCanada]

So in this situation, there is a live baby in the uterus, and they reason that pulling off the babies arms and legs while it’s alive in an abortion is the better choice that being born, held by it’s parents, and given comfort and assistance as they pass away. How does this make a lick of sense?

 

[Lavlab]

@PennyinCanada wait… they do that to the poor child?? i never thought the process was that horrible. Just disgusting

 

[Cruciferi]

If they baby would die and be suffering after a few hours of birth, would terminating be a sin?

The Catholic Church DOES NOT ALLOW Abortion, Infanticide, or Euthanasia.

 

[Francis]

@Lavlab

I have a question. I have been seeing plenty of posts about women who terminated their pregnancy to prevent their child for suffering, as their child would be suffering for the few moments of their life then die. Many say that what they did was a heroic choice. I quickly dismissed those ads/posts as I was looking for recipes. So heres my question: If they baby would die and be suffering after a few hours of birth, would terminating be a sin?

Yes, it’s murder , Exodus 20:13 Genesis 9:5 You shall not murder.5 For your own lifeblood I will surely require a reckoning: from every animal I will require it and from human beings, each one for the blood of another, I will require a reckoning for human life.6 Whoever sheds the blood of a human,by a human shall that person’s blood be shed;for in his own image
God made humankind.

I noticed there were many Catholics who have done that, and refuse to go to confession as they loved the baby. Anyways, please give all your opinions and thoughts!

Suffering has great redemptive value in the sight of God, and when added to the merits and sacrifices of Jesus it becomes all the more Slavic ,and by the Graces and intercession of the Immaculate Virgin Mary ,she adds her own and move it even more appealing to God in a perfect way more or less in our favor.

I noticed there were many Catholics who have done that, and refuse to go to confession as they loved the baby.

If you get a chance you need to advice them about the consequences of sin and that they need to confess who have done so ,before that, you need to also advice them about the need for Baptism by a priest or a lay Baptism if its an emergency or when the Catholic Priest are not available

Also, only the priest and deacons are ordinary ministers of the sacrament of baptism and can perform all of the rites. In some extreme conditions where there are no ordained ministers available, lay people have been authorized to perform the essential rites.

An unauthorized lay person should not perform a baptism except in cases of imminent danger of death or other dire situations where not even an authorized lay minister is available.

https://www.ewtn.com/library/Liturgy/zlitur1

https://www.catholicdoors.com/faq/qu781.htm
A miscarriage may also be called a “spontaneous abortion.” This refers to a naturally occurring events, not to medical abortions or surgical abortions.

 

[humbleseeker]

I quickly dismissed those ads/posts as I was looking for recipes

I’m sorry, this is off topic and I don’t want to detract from the gravity of the subject, but what site were you looking at that discusses abortion along side recipe ideas? I’m really hoping that it was two separate web sites

Welcome to the forums!

 

[rose321]

I have a question. I have been seeing plenty of posts about women who terminated their pregnancy to prevent their child for suffering, as their child would be suffering for the few moments of their life then die. Many say that what they did was a heroic choice. I quickly dismissed those ads/posts as I was looking for recipes. So heres my question: If they baby would die and be suffering after a few hours of birth, would terminating be a sin? I noticed there were many Catholics who have done that, and refuse to go to confession as they loved the baby. Anyways, please give all your opinions and thoughts!

Respectfully opinion only and just seeking answers to what has been stated within ones question.
But there is much more questions and answers to fully understand the all of all is there not?

What was the child suffering from which lead sadly and painfully make the decision to terminate ones pregnancy, maybe?

Not knowing the over all health issues the child was suffering from, maybe?
Example
What was the innocent child suffering from upon birth or during pregnancy?

What stage of the child’s development, did this occur during or after birth in making this Life and Death decision?


Today we now have new modern tech . Why was the child’s health issues not found earlier before delivery? New found knowledge, along with modern tech… surgery is now being done, to correct the child’s health issues …while the child is still in the Mother’s Womb? example …heart surgery? etc

Child’s health issues and child developed is found also>>>>early detection >>> while the child is still within the Mother’s womb. example…surgery while the child is still within the Mother’s womb, is this not true?

Did the Mother have… prenatal care… during and throughout her pregnancy?

Did the Mother have an ultrasound done during pregnancy that might of identified the child’s health issues early in the stage of ones pregnancy?

Question What was the child suffering from upon birth or during that was a life and death situation?

Peace toward respectfully seeking to honestly understand both sides and serious issues.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Respectfully opinion only and just seeking answers to what has been stated within ones question.
But there is much more questions and answers to fully understand the all of all is there not?

What was the child suffering from which lead sadly and painfully make the decision to terminate ones pregnancy, maybe?

Not knowing the over all health issues the child was suffering from, maybe?

(…rest of rose321’s post snipped for space)

None of this matters. (including all the stuff you listed that I didn’t quote because I didn’t want to repeat a whole long post)

The Catholic Church teaches that terminating a pregnancy is always a sin.
It’s not a case of needing to gather more facts to determine if the termination was somehow not sinful.

All of the stuff you listed is not relevant to the question of “is termination a sin”. Yes, it’s a sin.
There is nothing to discuss here.

 

[Annie]

Probably the mothers in the situations described by the OP were under medical care, as and had undergone pre-natal testing. That was how the mothers knew they would suffer upon being born.

 

[Bluebright]

Yes it’s sin a sin. It’s up to God who gets to live or die and when. I do not think suffering should be seen as a punishment but as medicine. It is a great honour to be given this medicine when we are sick of not everyone is given this medicine so we should accept it and be very grateful even if we dont understand what the medicine is for or if we dont like it. This goes for the medicine given to others too. In all humility, medicine given to others, even those close to us , isnt really our business, it is between them and God so we should comfort and support them in it and pray for them, yes but not try to stop it. We honestly don’t know better than the great physician who is applying the medicine (God) so we should not interfere in this way.

 

[Canvas]

The Catholic Church teaches that terminating a pregnancy is always a sin.

There are some exceptions----when a pregnancy is terminated as the result of treating a medical emergency, like an ectopic pregnancy or aggressive cancer or some other grave medical situation. When the termination is not the intended result, (even if it is acknowledged that the treatment will end the pregnancy), but treating the dangerous medical condition is, that is not a sin.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

That is not “termination of a pregnancy”. The pregnancy ends as a side effect of the other medical treatment.

That is also not what rose was talking about. She’s asking all this stuff about what condition the baby had and did Mom have medical treatment. Irrelevant. We don’t care what condition the baby had, or whether the baby can be treated in the womb, etc.

 

[rose321]

he Catholic Church teaches that terminating a pregnancy is always a sin.

Respectfully one is more then… fully aware…being born and raised in the church… this is a sin and this is not about me! One is pro-life just trying to understand yet not knowing if one is of the faith either or not… of the faith. To make the decision and in stating the child was suffering, from what?

Title topic is… Hello everyone, preventing suffering…Why I asked what was the child suffering from, that made one choose themselves to make such a decision?

And because not to long ago there was beautiful precious innocent young child… suffering was under life support in the news was there not?
Parents fought so hard to not end their precious child’s life…even met with and sought out the Pope’s help also … but was in the court…very sad indeed.

Sorry if I am poorly communicating…just wanted to know what the child was suffering from that was it…and if prenatal care throughout the 9 months, would of made the Mother aware before birth also to correct etc…Why I was asking what was the child was suffering from and could something been done before delivery also?

Peace deeply troubled, sadden, by this new inhuman law and like our Pope does and teaches us to…

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I didn’t mean to sound harsh on you rose, but it’s important to be very clear on this issue, because many people think like the OP, that if the baby is suffering somehow or is likely to suffer after it is born because it has a birth defect, then it is better to terminate the pregnancy.

This is a pretty strict rule the Church has made., that such termination is not allowed.

I know you try to be very respectful when you discuss and that is very good of you. Also it seems maybe English is not your first language and you do very well with your communications.

In this case, discussion seemed to me to be likely to mislead or confuse people who read. That is why I wrote what I did, so people don’t get confused.

 

[rose321]

In this case, discussion seemed to me to be likely to mislead or confuse people who read. That is why I wrote what I did, so people don’t get confused.

Respectfully thank you kindly Tis-Bearself and one is correct being older and ones own health issues at times, very poor communications in my response…I thank you again for your very kind reply!! Thank you and fully agree, it is very important to make ourselves clearer being of the faith!

Much Blessings towards Thanking you for your kind response!!..

 

[Francis]

We must be careful when presenting the above quoted part- a person in pain, especially a critically ill newborn, should not be made to suffer until their natural death.

Sorry its not according to the Catholic teaching ,i disagree on this 2274 Since it must be treated from conception as a person, the embryo must be defended in its integrity, cared for, and healed, as far as possible, like any other human being.

Prenatal diagnosis is morally licit, "if it respects the life and integrity of the embryo and the human fetus and is directed toward its safe guarding or healing as an individual. . . . It is gravely opposed to the moral law when this is done with the thought of possibly inducing an abortion, depending upon the results: a diagnosis must not be the equivalent of a death sentence."82

I was hesitant to make this post, lest someone associate my reply with terminally ending one’s suffering in an unnatural way (abortion or infanticide),

ok

but let’s make it clear that it is cruel and is not Catholic theology to withhold pain relief from a dying person, especially an infant.

Please can you quote from the Catholic source like the CCC or Magisterium ,Scriptures of your claim!

 

[Wendy1989]

A couple points to ponder:

1. Even with today’s advanced diagnostics, there are many healthy babies born that had a pre-term diagnosis of a deadly disorder. This is why abortion clinics never give the lab results of the ‘POC’ exam. Don’t want the ‘mom’ to know that the child they terminated at 26 weeks in utero was actually healthy!
2. It is always a mortal sin to intentionally take the life of an innocent. Whether to presumably spare the person from ‘suffering’ or out of social convenience.

 

[Francis]

And NEVER once did I mention that abortion was okay, did I? No, I did not. In fact, I specifically stated that someone might try and skew what I posted. Yep, your first response was to disagree with what I posted…and you left it there, even after reading and replying that you had obviously read my disclaimer.

am sorry i was posting on the other thread ,i need read before i could quote Right! i had a quick read ,you come to conclusion quickly though anyways

The intention is very important , not in the case for quickening the termination of the baby but for saving or prolonging life and relief of the baby then its ok i agree with you

. 2279 Even if death is thought imminent, the ordinary care owed to a sick person cannot be legitimately interrupted. The use of painkillers to alleviate the sufferings of the dying, even at the risk of shortening their days, can be morally in conformity with human dignity if death is not willed as either an end or a means, but only foreseen and tolerated as inevitable Palliative care is a special form of disinterested charity. As such it should be encouraged.

By your earlier reasoning, people shouldn’t use pain medicine or anesthesia for anything. They should just suffer and offer it up. Good grief! Please tell me I have misinterpreted your posts.

I never said that ! ,the Op was saying to prevent suffering for few hours of the baby ,can the baby be terminated in other words is it a sin ?