Help, Anti-Catholic quotes

  • Thread starter Thread starter Sword_Brethren
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
S

Sword_Brethren

Guest
An anti-Catholic posted these quotes on another forum,

“The Pope has the power to change times, to abrogate laws, and to dispense with all things, even the precepts of Christ.” "The Pope has the authority and often exercised it, to dispense withthe command of Christ."Decretal, de Tranlatic Episcop. Cap. (The Pope can modify divine law.)Ferraris’ Ecclesiastical Dictionary.

“Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change (Saturday Sabbath to Sunday) was her act… And the act is a MARK of her ecclesiastical authority in religious things.” H.F. Thomas, Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons.

“Sunday is our MARK of authority. . .the church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact” Catholic Record of London, Ontario Sept 1,1923.

Any of my Catholic brothers and sisters have any comments on these quotes?
 
Did reading these posts disturb you, is that why you are asking? Or do you want information as to how to counter them?

Anyway, they are based on the false idea that an ecclesial community should be founded on the Bible. Obviously Christ did not found His Church on the Bible, since it did not exist at the time. The Catholic Church is founded on Christ, with the pope as the vicar or steward of the Church, and the teachings of Christ as the teachings of the Church.

I always say that Protestants may have Bible-based churches, but we have a Church-based Bible. IOW, the Bible is based on Catholic teachings rather than the other way around.
 
St_Francis said:
Did reading these posts disturb you, is that why you are asking? Or do you want information as to how to counter them?

Anyway, they are based on the false idea that an ecclesial community should be founded on the Bible. Obviously Christ did not found His Church on the Bible, since it did not exist at the time. The Catholic Church is founded on Christ, with the pope as the vicar or steward of the Church, and the teachings of Christ as the teachings of the Church.

I always say that Protestants may have Bible-based churches, but we have a Church-based Bible. IOW, the Bible is based on Catholic teachings rather than the other way around.
Click to expand...
I would like information as how to counter them.
 
“The Pope has the power to change times, to abrogate laws, and to dispense with all things, even the precepts of Christ.” "The Pope has the authority and often exercised it, to dispense withthe command of Christ."Decretal, de Tranlatic Episcop. Cap. (The Pope can modify divine law.)Ferraris’ Ecclesiastical Dictionary.

Anybody have any information on this quote. Part of the quote states the Pope can “dispense withthe command of Christ”? The Catholic Church does not teach that right?
 
Dude their propaganda doesn’t matter because, as I showed you in my post above the New Testament is where we see that the Church ceased worship on the sabbath in honor of the resurrection.

The church does have the right to do that as that is Jewish law and we are not Jews.

Oh and it was exposed as a forgery long ago and is discussed at
Pope Nicholas - Catholic Answers Forums
 
Listen to what your fellow Catholics have been telling you. Quite honestly I would say that your Adventist friend is probably quote-mining off some website (which is quote-mining from a different source etc etc), judging by the poor citations. I’d request that your acquaintance find some more specific citations for his references, I don’t think you should have to dig through all of what H.F. Thomas wrote or Ferraris’ Ecclesiastical Dictionary to find out what on earth he’s talking about. I bet you anything that these quotes probably either a) don’t exist or b) have been taken so grossly out of context that they are not even recognizable compared to the original.

Then there is always the fact that just becomes some bishop or ecclesiastical dictionary mentions something doesn’t mean it is orthodox. H.F. Thomas and Ferraris’ dictionary were not infallible ya know. 😉
 
Sword_Brethren said:
I would like information as how to counter them.
Click to expand...
First, read those links in Post #2 that CM provided you. Take your time and really absorb it.

Next, realize that they are admitting, in some way, that IF they are wrong and Sunday worship can be found in Scripture, then the Catholic Church is really THE True Church…because they have narrowed Sunday worship down to the Catholic Church’s action.

Then, explain to them what you read form those links that CM provided you with. Show them Sunday worship in Scripture, etc… And then pray that the Holy Spirit will lead them to conversion and that they will open their hearts to God’s promptings.

Finally, pray for them daily, for the rest of your natural life, that they will open their hearts to allow God to lead them to Truth, wherever it leads them. 🙂

ETA: The supposed “quotes” you are being given are a moot point. It doesn’t matter what so-n-so said. If they don’t have the authentic Catholic Doctrine to show you, then they are showing you a “strawman”. You might open something like this: “Unless you can show me some authentic Catholic Doctrine that says the exact same thing as those quotes, then they don’t really matter because you can’t show them to be authentic Catholic Doctrine. And as far as what the Church has authority on earth to do…well, that’s a different topic than Sunday worship…it’s a topic of authority. First let’s come to an understanding of WHAT the Church teaches about Sunday worship, and WHY. After that we can discuss whether its right and whether there is any authority. So, do you happen to have the authentic Catholic Doctrine on Sunday worship handy, or woul dyou like me to find it and provide it for you?”
 
Sword_Brethren said:
“The Pope has the power to change times, to abrogate laws, and to dispense with all things, even the precepts of Christ.” "The Pope has the authority and often exercised it, to dispense withthe command of Christ."Decretal, de Tranlatic Episcop. Cap. (The Pope can modify divine law.)Ferraris’ Ecclesiastical Dictionary.

Anybody have any information on this quote. Part of the quote states the Pope can “dispense withthe command of Christ”? The Catholic Church does not teach that right?
Click to expand...
Ask the source who produced this quote to provide with his source or where he got it…most likely…it is a made up quote that cannot stand scrutiny. You can tell your source if he does not produce the document where this is written…it is a false one.
 
pablope said:
Ask the source who produced this quote to provide with his source or where he got it…most likely…it is a made up quote that cannot stand scrutiny. You can tell your source if he does not produce the document where this is written…it is a false one.
Click to expand...
This. In my experience, 90% of the quotes I am given turn out to be fake - pulled from a website that made them up by a person who knew no better. Half the time, its attributed to a specific pope, specific year, and specific document, and if you double check, neither the pope lived during that year, nor was the document produced during the pope’s life or during that year.
 
This looks like Seventh Day Adventist propaganda. IMO, SDA’s are currently the most propagandistic group in anti-Catholic Protestantism. The have perfected the art of propaganda in their writings and illustrations. The goal is to get people to think on a sub-rational level.

One tactic is to use other groups to corrobrate the Catholic belief re Sunday. Most other Protestant groups go with Sunday, as do the Easter Orthodox. SDA’s are a tiny minority, but can make alot of noise.

I think that SDA’s try to associate anything with “Rome” as evil, a message they also want to take to Protestant groups in the hope that they will also give up Sunday.

But since SDA’s are Trinitarian, logically they should give up the Trinity because it is of “Rome”. I came across a Oneness Pentecostal site once where they used word and pictoral propaganda to show how the Trinity is pagan; the same style of propaganda you can see from SDA’s. I sent that to a SDA showing that he should run from the Trinity.

I wonder if he did.

In my opinion, SDAism is a quasi-Christian Judazing heresy that follows a false prophet (EGW) and seem very paranoid over “end-times” matters.
 
Sword_Brethren said:
An anti-Catholic posted these quotes on another forum,

“The Pope has the power to change times, to abrogate laws, and to dispense with all things, even the precepts of Christ.” "The Pope has the authority and often exercised it, to dispense withthe command of Christ."Decretal, de Tranlatic Episcop. Cap. (The Pope can modify divine law.)Ferraris’ Ecclesiastical Dictionary.

“Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change (Saturday Sabbath to Sunday) was her act… And the act is a MARK of her ecclesiastical authority in religious things.” H.F. Thomas, Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons.

“Sunday is our MARK of authority. . .the church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact” Catholic Record of London, Ontario Sept 1,1923.

Any of my Catholic brothers and sisters have any comments on these quotes?
Click to expand...
I took the 1st item to look up. The “decretel…” It got some interest (as in very little interest) a few years ago on this forum, . forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=434747

then I tried a google search for this supposed Decretel. After looking over the 1st 10 pages of links of anti Catholic sewage, that’s 100 web sites in a row, just to make sure I give it a good ride, a fair chance :rolleyes: . Now if a pope says something, especially something controversal, it doesn’t take 100 websites to find IT, or a statement by the Catholic Church. I found nothing. I chalked this up to nonsense.

I didn’t bother trying to look up the second item.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top