Help dealing with Protestant (Southern Baptist in particular) arguments

[Nicea325]

Hi I’m currently locked in an argument with my brother who is taking protestant views (despite him being baptized in the Catholic church). He just posted to me this

"The Catholic Church was founded by people. Jesus was a Jew, However, he did not start the “Jewish” religion. That existed before him. However, Jesus gave the people he taught a new idea of how to live. After he died, people wanted to use His teachings as a new religious mentality, hence "Christ"ianity or “Christ"ians came about. Notice also, in the Bible, Jesus rarely talked about church. He did however, talk about building His church (which could also be interpreted as a belief system) on Simon Peter. Peter means “rock.” So Peter was basically the foundation (or start) of the “Christian” mentality or religion.”

How do I respond to this? Did Jesus have a physical church when he was with us? (like an actual building or gathering that he started). And is there somewhere in the Bible that I can use to reference?

Yeah…the CC was founded by people…and its founder was also God. There…see how easy it was to rebuke such elementary questions?

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Shaolen;10898800]Ok so the argument is now over. I’ll post some of the last actual posts ge made but after this he began to try to change the subject other than the religious points (probably because he himself is realizing he doesn’t really have any more proof to back himself up. I want to thank everyone here who has posted with aid. I’m not the best at explaining my Catholic faith but im learning how to stand my ground and I thank God for this forum! I hope that the points we’ve made to him will sink in one day and bring him back to the one true church of Jesus Christ.

You do well to share your situation here, because it is common place in many families. The Truth needs to be practiced and then spoken.

"I only reply to your last post because I don’t have time to sit here and debate the entire Bible with you. I have a wife and child to take care of. You say "God gave you free will but not the authority to interpret it…, " well he didn’t give man the authority to murder people did he? But man does it anyway. Remember this nation was formed because the pilgrims wanted the freedom to practice their own religion. Baptists churches all teach individually. Each one is an individual “Church” not bowing down to any other authority of man. I like that. I like individual freedom. My beliefs go beyond religion.

There is a difference between patriotism and religion, a separation of state and church. It appears your brother is mixing what belongs God and is giving it to Ceasar.

There is a heresy called “Americanism” which the Church has warned believers to be aware of; This heresy touches on your brothers individual freedom and freewill to do what ever he wants to do and believe what ever he wants to believe, no matter what Truth reveals to him. My quess coming from the south, he has mixed his patriotic fight for freedom and mixed it with his freewill to fight against the Truth which God revealed to His Catholic Church. He does not view the Church as the mystical body of Christ divinely instituted by Jesus Christ. He apppears to have a false view of the Catholic Church as a human institution like his own church that belives in Jesus Christ. The Word of God cannot and does not separate Himself from His body. Your brother separates the Word of God from the body of Christ from his own interpretation of scripture and belief.

I will pray for him

Peace be with you

 

[Shaolen]

I will pray for him

Peace be with you

Thank you so much!

 

[believerdoc]

Christ did not found a physical church as we know it today. Believers gathered together at various places; in homes, the catacombs, etc. The church existed as Christ commented in Matthew 18:20 “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them”. As far as the concept that Christ built his church on Peter a Protestant would say that the following text is misinterpreted."

Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, He was asking His disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?”And they said, “Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.”He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”And Jesus said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.“I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it".

It is Protestant belief that the church was founded upon Peter’s confession “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God” and not Peter himself. So we believe that Christ founded the universal church and not a physical church. The physical church developed so that people could worship and function in community with each other. In that respect we believe that the “true church” or “universal church” exists in a number of forms but all part of Christ’s church.

I do not say these things to debate them but to give you some background on Protestant beliefs and thinking.

 

[MartinJordan]

Christ did not found a physical church as we know it today. Believers gathered together at various places; in homes, the catacombs, etc. The church existed as Christ commented in Matthew 18:20 “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them”. As far as the concept that Christ built his church on Peter a Protestant would say that the following text is misinterpreted."

Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, He was asking His disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?”And they said, “Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.”He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”And Jesus said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.“I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it".

It is Protestant belief that the church was founded upon Peter’s confession “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God” and not Peter himself. So we believe that Christ founded the universal church and not a physical church. The physical church developed so that people could worship and function in community with each other. In that respect we believe that the “true church” or “universal church” exists in a number of forms but all part of Christ’s church.

I do not say these things to debate them but to give you some background on Protestant beliefs and thinking.

Did you notice that when Jesus asked and Simon replied “You are the Christ, Son of the Living God”, Jesus actually replies in the same way to Simon by answering him with "Simon Bar (Son Of) Jonah’ , "I say this to YOU (Jesus didn’t say that it was words but the living personSimon . You ARE Peter (Rock). Jesus actually changes his name to Peter (Petros- Rock).

Thus Peter IS the Rock(petra) on which the Church is built. Jesus of course is the Foundation the builder.

There is no issue who is the real Boss. Catholics know Jesus is the **chief **corner stone, but gave Simon (now Peter) the keys to the Kingdom because Jesus was going to go away thus leaving the Key to Peter (the visible Rock) and his successors.

MJ