J
Jim_Baur
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Where in the Holy Bible does it say: Love produces hope?
Thank you!
Thank you!
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L
Liberian
Guest
Jim,
To the best of my knowledge it doesn’t. Romans 5:3-5 is probably the closest that you will find.
To the best of my knowledge it doesn’t. Romans 5:3-5 is probably the closest that you will find.
- Liberian
J
Jim_Baur
Guest
Thanks!!!
T
TOME
Guest
Jim,
Perhaps you can use Paul’s 1 Cor 13:7 where in his hymn on Love Paul says of Love,"…Hopes all things…"
Perhaps you can use Paul’s 1 Cor 13:7 where in his hymn on Love Paul says of Love,"…Hopes all things…"
J
Jim_Baur
Guest
Thanks!
I use that passage all of the time, but did not think to join it with “love that produces hope.”
Just another question, TOME!
Could one then say, “Love produces, in a sense, faith”?
(cf. Galatians 5: 6)
Thanks!!!
I use that passage all of the time, but did not think to join it with “love that produces hope.”
Just another question, TOME!
Could one then say, “Love produces, in a sense, faith”?
(cf. Galatians 5: 6)
Thanks!!!
T
thistle
Guest
Hi Jim. You are running duplicate threads on this topic. They should be merged.Thanks!
I use that passage all of the time, but did not think to join it with “love that produces hope.”
Just another question, TOME!
Could one then say, “Love produces, in a sense, faith”?
(cf. Galatians 5: 6)
Thanks!!!
I
Image_of_God
Guest
Think of it this way:
Love produces hope, Hope produces Faith, Faith Produces Love, Love produces Faith, Faith produces Hope, and Hope produces Love again.
They are all neccessary for salvation.
Love produces hope, Hope produces Faith, Faith Produces Love, Love produces Faith, Faith produces Hope, and Hope produces Love again.
They are all neccessary for salvation.
J
Jim_Baur
Guest
Justification: Love and Faith
St. Mark 12: 28 One of the scribes, when he came forward and heard them disputing and saw how well he had answered them, asked him, “Which is the first (“protos”: first in a succession of things) of all the commandments?” 29 Jesus replied, “The first is this: ‘Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is Lord alone! 30 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.” 32 The scribe said to him, “Well said, teacher. You are right in saying, ‘He is One and there is no other than he.’ 33 And ‘to love him with all your heart, with all your understanding, with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself’ is worth more than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.” 34 And when Jesus saw that (he) answered with understanding, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And no one dared to ask him any more questions.
St. Matthew 22: 34 When the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together, 35 and one of them (a scholar of the law) tested him by asking, 36 “Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest?” 37 He said to him, "You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. 38 This is the greatest and the first commandment. 39 The second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments."
I Corinthians 13: 13 So faith, hope, love remain, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
I Corinthians 13: 7 It (LOVE) bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
I Corinthians 13: 1 If I speak in human and angelic tongues but do not have love, I am a resounding gong or a clashing cymbal. 2 And if I have the gift of prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge; if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give away everything I own, and if I hand my body over so that I may boast but do not have love, I gain nothing.
Ephesians 6: 14 So stand fast with your loins girded in truth, clothed with righteousness as a breastplate, 15 and your feet shod in readiness for the gospel of peace.
I Thessalonians 5: 8 But since we are of the day, let us be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love and the helmet that is hope for salvation.
Galatians 5: 6 For in Christ Jesus, neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working (“energeo”) through love.
**St. James 2: 5—Listen, my beloved brothers. Did not God choose those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom that he promised to those who love Him? **
Psalm 108: 5 For your love towers to the heavens; your faithfulness, to the skies.
St. John** 16: 27 For the Father himself loves you, because you have loved me and have come to believe that I came from God. 28 I came from the Father and have come into the world.**
Deuteronomy 30: 19 I call heaven and earth today to witness against you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. Choose life, then, that you and your descendants may live, 20 by loving the LORD, your God, heeding his voice, and holding fast to him. For that will mean life for you, a long life for you to live on the land which the LORD swore he would give to your fathers Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
St. Mark 12: 28 One of the scribes, when he came forward and heard them disputing and saw how well he had answered them, asked him, “Which is the first (“protos”: first in a succession of things) of all the commandments?” 29 Jesus replied, “The first is this: ‘Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is Lord alone! 30 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.” 32 The scribe said to him, “Well said, teacher. You are right in saying, ‘He is One and there is no other than he.’ 33 And ‘to love him with all your heart, with all your understanding, with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself’ is worth more than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.” 34 And when Jesus saw that (he) answered with understanding, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And no one dared to ask him any more questions.
St. Matthew 22: 34 When the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together, 35 and one of them (a scholar of the law) tested him by asking, 36 “Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest?” 37 He said to him, "You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. 38 This is the greatest and the first commandment. 39 The second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments."
I Corinthians 13: 13 So faith, hope, love remain, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
I Corinthians 13: 7 It (LOVE) bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
I Corinthians 13: 1 If I speak in human and angelic tongues but do not have love, I am a resounding gong or a clashing cymbal. 2 And if I have the gift of prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge; if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give away everything I own, and if I hand my body over so that I may boast but do not have love, I gain nothing.
Ephesians 6: 14 So stand fast with your loins girded in truth, clothed with righteousness as a breastplate, 15 and your feet shod in readiness for the gospel of peace.
I Thessalonians 5: 8 But since we are of the day, let us be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love and the helmet that is hope for salvation.
Galatians 5: 6 For in Christ Jesus, neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working (“energeo”) through love.
**St. James 2: 5—Listen, my beloved brothers. Did not God choose those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom that he promised to those who love Him? **
Psalm 108: 5 For your love towers to the heavens; your faithfulness, to the skies.
St. John** 16: 27 For the Father himself loves you, because you have loved me and have come to believe that I came from God. 28 I came from the Father and have come into the world.**
Deuteronomy 30: 19 I call heaven and earth today to witness against you: I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. Choose life, then, that you and your descendants may live, 20 by loving the LORD, your God, heeding his voice, and holding fast to him. For that will mean life for you, a long life for you to live on the land which the LORD swore he would give to your fathers Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
J
Jim_Baur
Guest
We I consider post # 8, I believe that love is first. It is first in a cardinal sense and not in a ordinal sense. I borrowed the idea of cardinal and ordinal sense from Saints Basil and Augustine. They used it on the One Day of creation and not the first day of creation. One Day is cardinal. First day is ordinal.
Love is the greatest. Faith is ordered by His love in our heart.
Love is the greatest. Faith is ordered by His love in our heart.
T
TOME
Guest
Jim,
I wish I could be more profound with my answer to your question, but yes I do believe Love produces hope.
I cannot really say more except if you really meditate on 1 Cor 13 the answer becomes a resonding, YES!
I wish I could be more profound with my answer to your question, but yes I do believe Love produces hope.
I cannot really say more except if you really meditate on 1 Cor 13 the answer becomes a resonding, YES!
J
Jim_Baur
Guest
TOME
I agree.
I posted the passages that helped see that.
I also agree: it is most difficult to artiuclate it.
I would love to know if I am correct.
I would love to know how it would effect Luther’s tradition.
I agree.
I posted the passages that helped see that.
I also agree: it is most difficult to artiuclate it.
I would love to know if I am correct.
I would love to know how it would effect Luther’s tradition.
T
TOME
Guest
Jim,
As for Luther, I need to do a lot of studying on what Luther thought before I comment.
But, maybe more important to the topic. I don’t know why this didn’t dawn on me before, maybe it was too obvious. However, to again reaffirm my previous answer about hope and love and that Love does produce hope, I am beginning to think that the best scriptural passage is not a particular passage or a verse from the OT or NT. Rather, the best scriptural background is to meditate on the life of Our Blessed Mother.
It was her total love of God that lead her to her great “Fiat” and without fully understanding what that would mean she certainly placed her faith and hope in God. Starting with the Presentation when she was told by Simeon that a sword would pierce her very self through the finding of Jesus in the Temple when he was 12 and his response to her, which she didn’t fully understand,were just the beginnins of Mary’s faith and hope initiated by her great love. Through out Jesus’ public ministry through especially in Mark, but also found in the other three gospels, Jesus at times seems to be a rather
rough her on her - at Cana, his initial response to her was almost a reprimand. Mark’s Gospel she seems not to fully understand the full meaning of his ministry and along with other relatives attempts to take Jesus home and Jesus curtly says only those who do the will of the Father are his true mother and brothers etc. In Luke, a similar situation happens when a women praises Mary by saying Blessed is the womb that bore you and the breast that fed you, but again instead of coming out publically and agreeing with the women again he declares his true relations are those who do the will of the Father. In hindsight we see he was actually praising Mary, yet, in the context of the gospel accounts it doesn’t look that way. Still her great love kept her going in faith and hope. Finally, what mother seeing her son die the way Jesus did wouldn’t have some doubts - it would be normal, but again Mary’s Love was the root of her faith and hope in God, even when it seemed God himself had abandoned His own Son.
There is one scene in the movie “The Passion of the Christ” that I think illustrates like few movies I have seen. As Christ is carrying his cross she finally is able to come to him and hold him. If you have seen the movie you know how brutally beaten he was and how horrible he looked, yet when he meets his mother his words to her are something like, “See how I make all things new”. I think that scene depicts well, how Mary’s great love was the root of her faith and ultimately Hope in God.
So yes, Love does produce hope.
As for Luther, I need to do a lot of studying on what Luther thought before I comment.
But, maybe more important to the topic. I don’t know why this didn’t dawn on me before, maybe it was too obvious. However, to again reaffirm my previous answer about hope and love and that Love does produce hope, I am beginning to think that the best scriptural passage is not a particular passage or a verse from the OT or NT. Rather, the best scriptural background is to meditate on the life of Our Blessed Mother.
It was her total love of God that lead her to her great “Fiat” and without fully understanding what that would mean she certainly placed her faith and hope in God. Starting with the Presentation when she was told by Simeon that a sword would pierce her very self through the finding of Jesus in the Temple when he was 12 and his response to her, which she didn’t fully understand,were just the beginnins of Mary’s faith and hope initiated by her great love. Through out Jesus’ public ministry through especially in Mark, but also found in the other three gospels, Jesus at times seems to be a rather
rough her on her - at Cana, his initial response to her was almost a reprimand. Mark’s Gospel she seems not to fully understand the full meaning of his ministry and along with other relatives attempts to take Jesus home and Jesus curtly says only those who do the will of the Father are his true mother and brothers etc. In Luke, a similar situation happens when a women praises Mary by saying Blessed is the womb that bore you and the breast that fed you, but again instead of coming out publically and agreeing with the women again he declares his true relations are those who do the will of the Father. In hindsight we see he was actually praising Mary, yet, in the context of the gospel accounts it doesn’t look that way. Still her great love kept her going in faith and hope. Finally, what mother seeing her son die the way Jesus did wouldn’t have some doubts - it would be normal, but again Mary’s Love was the root of her faith and hope in God, even when it seemed God himself had abandoned His own Son.
There is one scene in the movie “The Passion of the Christ” that I think illustrates like few movies I have seen. As Christ is carrying his cross she finally is able to come to him and hold him. If you have seen the movie you know how brutally beaten he was and how horrible he looked, yet when he meets his mother his words to her are something like, “See how I make all things new”. I think that scene depicts well, how Mary’s great love was the root of her faith and ultimately Hope in God.
So yes, Love does produce hope.
J
Jim_Baur
Guest
TOME
I want to thank you for your ideas, time and energy.
In addition to the Biblical passages, I must also mention St. Thomas Aquinas. He wrote that charity animate the virtues.
As the soul gives live to the body, so charity gives life to the virtues.
Jesus taught that the first or one commandment was love God.
Again, I am confindent that charity should be seen as cardinal one and not ordinal first.
Again, I am not certain but confident. Christian charity is in charge of faith. The entire Bible seems to teach that.
TOME, again, I want to thank you for your time and energy.
I want to thank you for your ideas, time and energy.
In addition to the Biblical passages, I must also mention St. Thomas Aquinas. He wrote that charity animate the virtues.
As the soul gives live to the body, so charity gives life to the virtues.
Jesus taught that the first or one commandment was love God.
Again, I am confindent that charity should be seen as cardinal one and not ordinal first.
Again, I am not certain but confident. Christian charity is in charge of faith. The entire Bible seems to teach that.
TOME, again, I want to thank you for your time and energy.
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