Help me dispell the doubt that "Jesus was insane"

[Angel7]

I once read that either what Jesus said is True, or he was mad.

I believe Jesus, and I believe what He preached and said is true. But I tried to dispell the doubt and couldn’t find anything in my knowledge to disprove it. However since I’m not the most informed person I know I’m missing something. Can someone help me and dispell this doubt?

Thank you!

And May God Bless You All!

 

[midori]

I think the options go, “Jesus was telling the truth; Jesus was deliberately lying; Jesus thought he was telling the truth but was insane” regarding his claim to divinity-- being of the same nature as God (“Those who have seen me have seen the Father”, for example) or of being able to forgive sins (I can forgive you for the sins you commit against me, but only God can give forgiveness for all sins committed since all sins are sins against God) or of being able to save us from death (“He who believes in me will never die” or “I am the bread of life”, for example).

So, let’s go with deliberately lying. Does Jesus come across as a liar in the NT? Were his actions and attitudes those of a liar? No. Jesus’ whole ministry was founded on Love of God and Love of Neighbor. He called his disciples to not just love their neighbors as themselves, but to love people as he had loved them. And he sacrificed his life for us. Think of all the chronic liars in your life… do we have a match? Not even close.

So then we have the possibility that he thought he was telling the truth, but that he was mistaken. He was deluded, and definitely not the first person with a God delusion. But reading the gospels, does Jesus come across as insane? As someone so wrapped up in themselves that they think they’re God? You have the opposite-- you have someone who’s brimming with love, with kindness, with generosity, with wisdom. You have someone who’s patient and humble, yet strong and confident. People would ask him questions in words, and he would answer to the real questions in their hearts. And that’s totally ignoring any of the miracles— just based on the power of his message alone, people who listened were either strongly inspired by his words, or powerfully intimidated, but his words had effect. Have you ever really interacted with crazy people before? If so, you’ll know that this isn’t a match, either… and especially not for a crazy person who specifically believes they’re God.

I highly recommend the Handbook of Christian Apologetics by Kreeft & Tacelli. It goes into great depth on a number of topics, including spending a whole chapter on this one.

 

[promethius]

I think the options go, “Jesus was telling the truth; Jesus was deliberately lying; Jesus thought he was telling the truth but was insane”

The original options are “Aut Deus, aut homo malus” (either God, or a bad/evil man).

No one originally thought that Christ was delusional, so that option had to be added later (it was firmly in place in CS Lewis’ arguments for Christ, at least…

 

[jcrichton]

I once read that either what Jesus said is True, or he was mad.

I believe Jesus, and I believe what He preached and said is true. But I tried to dispell the doubt and couldn’t find anything in my knowledge to disprove it. However since I’m not the most informed person I know I’m missing something. Can someone help me and dispell this doubt?

Thank you!

And May God Bless You All!

…first, check out the source… if seemingly legitimate Christian, then check out the context and content… many “Christians” think that they have such fantastic personal relationship with Christ/God that they can express themselves in any form that suits their whim (they ignore Scritptures when we are warned that we will be held accountable for every useless word that comes out of our mouths and Jesus’ telling that from the depth of the heart is where man contamination arises)…

I think these people tend to confuse others (as yourself) and themselves… they want to seem so wise and original that they miss the point altogether (St. Jude speaks of it when he tells us that not even the Archangel Mitchael spoke against Satan but rather called on to Yahweh God to rebuke him; and they miss St. Pual’s rant about our Faith–if Jesus did not rise from the dead our Faith is null) when using such misplaced and exagerated language to discribe God/Jesus.

What did Jesus claim, that He is God?

…well, God is Spirit, the Holy Spirit is Spirit, the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God the Father and God the Son = Jesus is God!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Angel7]

…well, God is Spirit, the Holy Spirit is Spirit, the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God the Father and God the Son = Jesus is God!

Maran atha!

Angel

Can you explain this a little I’m somewhat not following it. We believe that Jesus is God. My doubt (Which is now conquered thanks to everyone’s help) was that Jesus thought he was God, but wasn’t.

PS. What does “Maran atha” mean?

 

[EricFilmer]

I once read that either what Jesus said is True, or he was mad.

This sounds like what was expressed by C.S. Lewis in chapter 3 of Mere Christianity. It was his objection to the theory that Jesus was simply a great moral teacher but was not really God. The following quotations from C.S. Lewis should serve as a sufficient abbreviation of his argument:

“Among these Jews there suddenly turns up a man who goes about talking as if He was God. He claims to forgive sins. He says He has always existed. He says he is coming to judge the world at the end of time.”

"…Christ says that he is ‘humble and meek’ and we believe Him; not noticing that, if He were merely a man, humility and meekness are the very least characteristics we could attribute to some of His sayings.

I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him, ‘I am ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept His claim to be God.’ That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic - on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg - or else he would be the the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."

-C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity (Simon & Schuster: New York, 1980), 55-56.

Over time, this concept of Lewis has become known as the “Lord, Liar or Lunatic” argument. It means that based on what Jesus said, objectively speaking a person can only make these three credible conclusions as to who Jesus is.

I believe Jesus, and I believe what He preached and said is true. But I tried to dispell the doubt and couldn’t find anything in my knowledge to disprove it. However since I’m not the most informed person I know I’m missing something. Can someone help me and dispell this doubt?

Seeing as belief in Jesus is ultimately built upon faith, I don’t think that (objectively speaking) it can be definitively proven that Jesus is Lord and not a lunatic or a liar (at least not proven this side of heaven). I think that the three options are set before each person, and choosing to believe Jesus to be Lord is a true exercise of faith. After all, it is hard to imagine how a person can exercise the virtue of faith in a situation where there is no room for doubt. Faith rather, is a belief that perseveres in spite of doubts that naturally arise.

But I will also say that based upon the testimony and dedication (unto death) of the Apostles, the perseverance and spread of Christianity despite periods of vast persecution by the most tyrannical governments in history, the conversion of countless Jews who came to accept that Jesus was the Messiah foretold in the Old Testament, and the miracles and apparitions associated with Jesus (and Mary and his saints) over a course of 2000 years, throw considerable weight into the Lord option.

 

[jcrichton]

Can you explain this a little I’m somewhat not following it. We believe that Jesus is God. My doubt (Which is now conquered thanks to everyone’s help) was that Jesus thought he was God, but wasn’t.

PS. What does “Maran atha” mean?

St. Paul makes a demand on the Believers when heresies about Jesus’ Resurrection arose; though Scriptures are not totally clear, it seems that some (perhaps influence by an anti-Christian agenda) were questioning the Resurrection… but these were among the Believers… so St. Paul challenged their reason: if we Believe in the Risen Christ and He did not in fact was Risen then our Faith is null and void! …I think that some of today’s Christians attempt to come up with similar teachings by suggesting that if Christ was not God then He must have been crazy due to His claim of Divinity…

I believe that this type of “teaching” tends to obscure rather then shed light on the Truth; it is obvious that non-Believers will run with any askewed rendering of Scriptures… but, I suspect, the novice/inniciate in the Faith could be entangled in a web of confusion and doubt as they may not be familiar enough with Scriptures and their Faith may be much too tender… (I fall into the latter part of teaching since I tend to share too much too soon.)

Jesus is God; yet, as the Lamb of God (St. John 1:29-34), the Word Incarnate (St. John 1:1-18) did not come to Reveal His full Divinity… rather, Jesus came to Save humanity (St. John 3:16-21). Still, since He is God, He had to made this fact known to man in order to fulfill all of the Scriptures… but in a manner that would not upset the Salvific Plan set forth from the Beginning (St. John 1:11-13)… the religious Jews understood His claim to Divinity as, in several occasions, they attempted to stone Him and when He confronted them they fell back to “you being a man make yourself/claim to be God,” and “only God can forgive sin,” (paraphrased)… towards the end of His Ministry the Disciples begin to understand that He is God ("there’s no need to ask you anything, we know that you know everything) and Jesus Himself Reveals it: “…the Father and I are One,” and “…do you not believe that I am in the Father and that the Father is in Me…?”

…Jesus promised that He would send another Paraclete that would reveal the total Truth and that would remind them of His Teachings… once the Church began to grow, the Holy Spirit expanded the Apostles’ understanding and the Gospels were further explained through Doctrinal Teachings… beginning with the Samaritan woman (St. John 4:23-24) Jesus Reveals that God is Spirit… as the Church’s Teacher and Guide, the Holy Spirit further Reveals that He is the Spirit of God, the Father, as well as that of God, the Son:

Wherefore, I give you to understand that no man, speaking by the Spirit of God, saith Anathema to Jesus. And no man can say The Lord Jesus, but by the Holy Ghost. (1 Corinthians 12:3)

For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Gentiles, whether bond or free: and in one Spirit we have all been made to drink. (1 Co 12:13)

But you are not in the flesh, but the spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. (Romans 8:9)

And if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you; he that raised up Jesus Christ, from the dead shall quicken also your mortal bodies, because of his Spirit that dwelleth in you. (Rom 8:11–DRV)

…I encourage you to read all of 1 Corinthians 12 and all of Romans 8 (this chapter should be read in light of St. John 1:11-13).

I hope this helped; let me know if you need further explanation; it is always clear as day in my mind–but thought does not always translate as smoothly!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[EricFilmer]

PS. What does “Maran atha” mean?

It’s an Aramaic expression usually translated as “Come, O Lord” or “Our Lord, come” (but it could also be translated as “Our Lord has come”). It was used by St. Paul in 1Cor 16:22, and is also found in the Didache. In Christianity it is a phrase that expresses yearning for the coming of Jesus.

Rev. 22:20 contains what appears to be a Greek equivalent of it (“Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!”), which inclines most Bibles to translate the Aramaic of Paul with a future connotation (i.e., “Come, O Lord!”) than a past connotation (i.e., “Our Lord has come”).

 

[Wowbagger]

Everything everyone’s said is pretty good. But, just to add:

MIRACLES. Loaves and fishes, Lazarus from the dead, the centurion’s daughter, not to mention that whole bodily-resurrection-and-eventual-ascension-into-heaven number. If Jesus was mad or delusional, he was also an extraordinarily clever magician-huckster.

MIRACLES, man.

 

[jcrichton]

It’s an Aramaic expression usually translated as “Come, O Lord” or “Our Lord, come” (but it could also be translated as “Our Lord has come”). It was used by St. Paul in 1Cor 16:22, and is also found in the Didache. In Christianity it is a phrase that expresses yearning for the coming of Jesus.

Rev. 22:20 contains what appears to be a Greek equivalent of it (“Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!”), which inclines most Bibles to translate the Aramaic of Paul with a future connotation (i.e., “Come, O Lord!”) than a past connotation (i.e., “Our Lord has come”).

…thanks for the assist… I got so into the Biblical passages I did not notice the PS!

Maran atha!

Angel