Help Needed: Heretical Pairsh in Virginia!

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DominvsVobiscvm

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My aunt, who is beginning to return to the Catholic faith, resides in the Diocese of Arlington, VA, which I thought was supposed to be very orthodox. (She attends Saint Elizabeth Ann Seton, a parish made famous several years ago by the pressence of a stigmatic priest and other miraculous phenomena connected with religious images in the church. I don’t know much about this, though.)

Anyway, her twin children (age 10) are currently enrolled in “RCIC” (Rite of Christian Initiation of Children), and are preparing to be Confirmed and Communicated this Easter Vigil. I’ve been asked to sponsor them.

Recently, though, something happened in the classes. Apparently, this parish required parents to attend RCIA, while the kids attend RCIC. Okay; whatever.

Anyway, my aunt hasn’t been really impressed with the stuff her kids have been doing. Their RCIC is very watered-down. The kids do arts-and-crafts and do puzzles; they don’t touch a Catechism or a Bible.

Ditto for RCIA. My aunt doesn’t own the Catechism, but she was hoping that it would be used to teach her children. It isn’t; nor do they use it in RCIA. In fact, at the first RCIA meeting, the Catechist made fun of the Caetchism, without mentioning it by name, saying that “the Church has this really thick book, divided into four parts, and it’s a really good thing to have . . . if you want to fall asleep quickly!” (Implying that the book is really boring.)

So, the RCIA does not use the Bible, or the Catechism, but they make very generous use of these brochured called “Catholic Update.”

Now, naturally, I know what these brochures are. I’ve heard of them and read several of them. They are very heretical. However, they also carry imprimaturs and so it’s hard to attack them without attacking the authority of the (heretical?) bishop who endorses them. (Yes, I know exactly what an Imprimatur is and what it does and doesn’t imply.)

At their last class, the Catechist actually told them that “the Bible was mostly fiction.”

Now, I’m shocked that this could be going on in the Diosese of Arlington.

My aunt is tired of not being presented official Church teaching, from the Bible or the Catechism; this latest example of outright heresy was the last straw, and she’s thinking of pulling her kids from the RCIC program.

She’s (invalidly) married to a Baptist, and she definitely doesn’t want him attending the RCIA at this parish (not that he’d want to anyway).

I’ve advised her to arrange to talk to or meet the pastor, and tell him what happened. And to keep her children enrolled anyways, until they are Confirmed and Communicated. After which, I told her to go find a better parish. She’s going to take my advice if her talk with the pastor doesn’t go anywhere,

Does anyone know anything more about this parish (i.e. the genuineness of the past alleged mirculous phenomena, or the parish’s overall orthodoxy)?

And, more importantly, where can I obtain a written, orthodox critique of the “Catholic Update” brochures? Does one exist, online or in print? I would love to send one to my aunt, which she can show her pastor.

Thanks for the help guys, prayers are appreciated.
 
I can’t say help you with your problem, but all I can say is “Lord, have mercy!”. I think today we often forget that heresy is a damnable sin…again I say, Lord have mercy.
 
All four volumes of the Baltimore Catechism are online at the following address:

catholic.net/baltimore_catechism/template_channel.phtml?channel_id=14

(You might have to key the address.)

Volume 1 is for the younger grades, volume 2 is for the middle grades, volume 3 is for the upper grades and volume 4 is for teachers and adults.

The print editions are available at www.tanbooks.com

The Baltimore Catechism presents basics of the Catholic Faith clearly and accurately.
 
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DominvsVobiscvm:
My aunt, who is beginning to return to the Catholic faith, resides in the Diocese of Arlington, VA, which I thought was supposed to be very orthodox. (She attends Saint Elizabeth Ann Seton, a parish made famous several years ago by the pressence of a stigmatic priest and other miraculous phenomena connected with religious images in the church. I don’t know much about this, though.)…
…

…Does anyone know anything more about this parish (i.e. the genuineness of the past alleged mirculous phenomena, or the parish’s overall orthodoxy)?

And, more importantly, where can I obtain a written, orthodox critique of the “Catholic Update” brochures? Does one exist, online or in print? I would love to send one to my aunt, which she can show her pastor.

Thanks for the help guys, prayers are appreciated.
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I don’t think that anything miraculous was found to be happening. I remember reading that the priest to whom it alledgedly happened to was in a record book for riding rollercoasters (like the most, or something.) Not that there’s anything wrong with 'coasters. He was seen as an attention getter.

It’s been awhile since I’ve lived there but I think there is an orthodox parish in Stafford.

I’ll look for stuff on Catholic Update. I would go ahead and call the Catholic Answers apologists line and see if they have something. I think those updates are insidious. They have just enough truth in them to make it difficult to refute them.
 
Dominus,

It is very difficult to tell sometimes if there has been some misunderstanding by your aunt who is new to the Church. We as Catholics do not believe that the Bible is 100% historical, we do however, believe that it is the word of God. It doesn’t sound like there was any question that the Bible is the Word of God.

Also, I would be interested in knowing what it was that you found heretical about Catholic Update. I have read some of them, and I havn’t gotten that idea, but maybe I missed something, or didn’t see the same ones you did. Here is a link to the Catholic Update archives.

americancatholic.org/Newsletters/CU/Archive.asp

Any other opinions on any of the articles on this site?
 
I had a similar experience in Louisville, Ky. A couple of years ago, while teaching in RCIA, I was told that I needed to take some Ministry Formation Classes.

I signed up and had to be interviewed to get into the classes. They did say during the group interview that the class would probably not be what we thought it would be. It was supposed to help us to discern our gifts and get a better understanding of ourselves.

When I was accepted, another woman from the parish warned me that she had taken the classes and that things were not “right”. So I consulted with my spiritual advisor and he said to go ahead with the classes.

A few weeks into the classes, we were in a class on prayer. The woman who taught it said she was “Pastor” of St. Williams’ Church in Louisville. Right at the mid-point of her talk, she mentioned that, because of the priest shortage, when they can’t get a priest for mass on Sunday, she does a “bread service.” Yes, you read that right–a BREAD service. “And we don’t use consecrated hosts”, she announced proudly,“someone will bring in some bread and I will break it into pieces and put them into a basket and the people will come up and take a piece.”

When I asked if it wasn’t a mortal sin to miss mass on Sunday, the moderator just said that she didn’t think so. And when I said I thought it was, the “Pastor” said that she tells people ahead of the service and that noone leaves. This is a downtown church within 5-10 minutes of several other Catholic parishes.

The next week I again complained that there was no reason to have a bread service as there should be consecrated hosts. After all, isn’t the holy eucharist the source and summit of the mass. This is the the most important part of the mass and the biggist difference between us and the Protestant churches.

What is going on ? Also, our ARCHBISHOP INSTALLED HER AS THE PASTORAL ADMINISTRATOR IN THAT CHURCH!!
 
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lindalou725:
I had a similar experience in Louisville, Ky. A couple of years ago, while teaching in RCIA, I was told that I needed to take some Ministry Formation Classes…
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Now that is a bizarre story. What a waste of a Sunday morning. You would think that they could at least come up with some concecrated hosts for the service, although this still would not replace the entirety of the Liturgy of the Eucharist.:tsktsk:
 

“The parents are the primary educators of their children” - no RCIC course can do very much, if the parents of those attending it don’t contribute too. The parish and the home both have a part to play in bringing up children as Christians, in different ways.​

 
tracy,

Not only was there a problem with the “bread service”, but the next week, when I complained about it, the priest that was there to talk about Church history said the bread service was the “wave of the future”. (because of the priest shortage) They defended it by using the example of the country priests who have the care of 2 or 3 parishes in the country. I know that exists, but this is the CITY.

Then, in his talk, the pointedly talked about “women heads of chuches” in the first century, like Pricilla and Phoebe. He also played down Peter’s primacy. He said, “And it wasn’t JUST Peter in Rome, it was Peter AND Paul.”

The next week, before he started his talk on part 2 of Church history, I asked about his handout sheet the previous week that said one of the weaknesses of the first century church was the lack of a central leader. “What about Peter?” I asked him. He answered me that< “Peter wasn’t the head of the Apostles, they were all EQUAL. Noone told them where to go, they just went.” Dumbfounded, I asked, "What about the KEYS Jesus gave to PETER? He answered. “Jesus didn’t give the keys to Peter, he gave them to ALL the Apostles. In fact, he gave them TO THE WHOLE CHURCH.”

A few weeks after this incident, I wrote an article for a group in Louisville called, Catholics in Action on what had happened to me.
After the article was published, I was called on the carpet by the head of the Ministry Formation program.

He could not refute anything I had said, but was angry at me and said that because of me, the program and their jobs (he and the facilitator of my group we opposite the table from me) were on the line. They asked why I was in the program and when I said I was there because I was told to take the program, and I thought I needed it to teach RCIA, he told me I was in the wrong program. So I was out.

I was so glad to be out, but a while later, one of the other guys who was still lin the class, said that they missed me because I challenged them. He said the group has shrunk since then.

We need to stand up for the truth of our faith. We are being infiltrated by New-agers who are trying to water-down our faith.

Lindalou:nope:
 
It is very difficult to tell sometimes if there has been some misunderstanding by your aunt who is new to the Church. We as Catholics do not believe that the Bible is 100% historical, we do however, believe that it is the word of God. It doesn’t sound like there was any question that the Bible is the Word of God.
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This is not what the Catechist said. She said, “Most of the Bible is fiction.”
 
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lindalou725:
tracy,

Not only was there a problem with the “bread service”, but the next week, when I complained about it, the priest that was there to talk about Church history said the bread service was the “wave of the future”. (because of the priest shortage) They defended it by using the example of the country priests who have the care of 2 or 3 parishes in the country. I know that exists, but this is the CITY.

Then, in his talk, the pointedly talked about “women heads of chuches” in the first century, like Pricilla and Phoebe. He also played down Peter’s primacy. He said, “And it wasn’t JUST Peter in Rome, it was Peter AND Paul.”

The next week, before he started his talk on part 2 of Church history, I asked about his handout sheet the previous week that said one of the weaknesses of the first century church was the lack of a central leader. “What about Peter?” I asked him. He answered me that< “Peter wasn’t the head of the Apostles, they were all EQUAL. Noone told them where to go, they just went.” Dumbfounded, I asked, "What about the KEYS Jesus gave to PETER? He answered. “Jesus didn’t give the keys to Peter, he gave them to ALL the Apostles. In fact, he gave them TO THE WHOLE CHURCH.”

A few weeks after this incident, I wrote an article for a group in Louisville called, Catholics in Action on what had happened to me.
After the article was published, I was called on the carpet by the head of the Ministry Formation program.

He could not refute anything I had said, but was angry at me and said that because of me, the program and their jobs (he and the facilitator of my group we opposite the table from me) were on the line. They asked why I was in the program and when I said I was there because I was told to take the program, and I thought I needed it to teach RCIA, he told me I was in the wrong program. So I was out.

I was so glad to be out, but a while later, one of the other guys who was still lin the class, said that they missed me because I challenged them. He said the group has shrunk since then.

We need to stand up for the truth of our faith. We are being infiltrated by New-agers who are trying to water-down our faith.

Lindalou:nope:
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:bigyikes: Have you written the Archbishop? If so and nothing has been done, document all this stuff and write Rome…and fast!!! Get video of this “bread service,” I’m sure Cardinal Arinze would be very interested in this…
 
I believe I found thier website on the internet (above link).
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Nope. That is “Saint Elizabeth of Hungary.” The parish in question was “Elizabeth Ann Seton.”
 
First of all you are not supposed to slander the name of the parish by naming it, even if your allegations are true.

Second, be careful using the word heretical - only the Church ex officio declares what is heresy and who is a heretic or teaching heresy - you and I don’t do that.

Third. You should have simply noted any catechetical abuses down, put them in writing and forwarded them to the priest in question. If he failed to act then send the same letter to his bishop. If the bishop fails to act, send the same copy to the papal nuncio in your country. If the papal nuncio fails to act, write to Rome.

This is the stupid Americanized Catholicism whereby we all wash our particular dirty laundry in public like this is some kind of Jerry Springer show.

You are writing about a very serious problem. If it is true, it is troubling. It is more troubling that you chose a forum where our enemies can see this and use this information against us.

You had no right to make that information public. In doing so you are breaking the very canon law of the Church you purport to be such an “orthodox” member of.

I would write those letters, apologized to that parish’s priest and catechists for you public detraction, go to confession then read what church law says about a Christian’s right to a good name - something you have taken away with your very public, indiscreet allegations.

Is it canons 220; 221 or 1369 that deal with harming another’s reputation and harming the reputation of the Church and religion in general.

From what I can see you have done all three.

The code is free and online at www.vatican.va and it applies to every Catholic from catechumen to the Pope.
 
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George2:
First of all you are not supposed to slander the name of the parish by naming it, even if your allegations are true.
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I respectfully disagree. What this parish is doing is public knowledge. It’s not like this person is repeating some private letter. They have seen a problem and they are not sure what to do about it. That is what these forums are for.

Also, you are forgetting that the definition of slander is a lie told about someone else that is damaging to their reputation. Detraction is the sin of telling something about someone unnecessarily that harms their reputation.

From what I have seen, I would be hesitant to judge someone as having sinned in those ways. Nothing repeated here was a private conversation, it is all stuff that was said publically. It is also stuff that is questionable, and this person has every right to seek advice for what to do before approaching the people in charge. I would never approach a pastor or parish leader (or bishop!) unless I knew more fully what precisely was wrong that needed discussing.

In this day and age where so many people are not properly catechized, and the parish leaders blow off anyone who questions them, it can be very difficult to find the truth of the matter and the gravity of the situation in question.

That is one of the reasons that Catholic Answers exists and one of the reasons they began these forums.

While your comments have merit, in that people definitely should be made more aware of their responsibility to be prudent and charitable in their repetition of errors and abuses, in cases where public error has been made, I see nothing wrong with seeking advice publically. And be careful that in crying out “detraction” you are not yourself detracting someone – perhaps it would have been better for you to accuse this person of detraction by private messaging them instead of chastising them on the open forum.

:twocents:

+veritas+
 
No Veritas. You might respectfully disagree, but the Church asks us to deal with problems like this using certain, pre-established protocols.

If you or the poster think these protocols are stupid or the Church is better served making public accusations against each other in public forums, newspapers, magazines or on television then go join one of thousands of protestant denominations.

You and the original poster are wrong. This thread should be deleted. It serves no purpose as the person making the accusation is duty bound to report this privately and discretely.

I respectfully suggest you study a bit about how the Church teaches us to deal with situations like this.

I don’t see making public accusations in the code of Canon law. Every person in this communion is innocent until proven guilty of an ecclesial offence and due process is owed to each.

Go read the code and go live by the code.
 
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e-catholic:
Here is a link to the Catholic Update archives.

americancatholic.org/Newsletters/CU/Archive.asp

Any other opinions on any of the articles on this site?
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I just followed the link and read five of the brochures. They all seemed very orthodox to me. And they were simple and well-written. I don’t see a problem, though I think the bible and the catechism are always the best choices.

I agree that if the RCIC/RCIA instructor is teaching heresy, it should be reported to the pastor ASAP. Give the shepherd the opportunity to “shep” 🙂 .
Grace to you,
Paul
 
This sounds a lot like my RCIA experience. I think it’s pretty widespread. I didn’t report it, myself, because I wasn’t sure of the proper way to go about it, but I agree it’s a good idea to do so.
We used those “Catholic Answers” pamphlets too, and I agree that they are pretty bad. They’re not neccessarily coming out and preaching heresy, but implying it - definately very liberal and “progressive” in their focus, and there seems to be a hidden agenda in them.
Erika
 
Here’s a review of the website of Saint Anthony Messenger, the heretical magazine that published “Catholic Update.”

Here’s a sample of quotes from “Catholic Update” that undermines the Church’s teaching on the Real Pressence.

Yeah, these quotes can, by a stretch, be interpreted in an orthodox manner, but they lead themselves to heretical interpretations very easily.
 
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