Help needed in talking with others about spirituality and faith

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Dear friends

I have just held a dinner party and during the course of the evening the topic of faith and God arose. This is not the first time in the same company this topic has arose and as always my faith is attacked. These are good people, friends and family. I pray for their conversion to Catholicism daily. Tonight was particularly bad, there was no falling out or arguing in a bad way, but the attack on my faith and whether it is truth was incomparible in severity as to any other time. When they left I felt totally dejected. They ate from my table, accepted my hospitality and kindness towards them and proceeded to attack my faith and I felt so defensive of it I could have left the room and cried. I tried to explain that there is an intrinsic truth,there may be other ways of viewing or perceiving that truth, but there is only one truth, one God. It was as though it fell on deaf ears. I tried to say that Jesus was who He said He was or he was a mad man and a total liar.

My friends and family seem to think you can perceive God as you choose and a person can pick and choose and do as you like and God will not mind this. At one point my sister-in-law said that she recognises good and bad and I said, ‘how far do you recognise it?’ she said ‘to it’s ends’ then I said ‘do you keep sunday holy?’ she said ‘no’ I said ‘then you do not recognise good and bad to it’s ends’ She didn’t like this comment, but it is the truth and she had no answer to it other than to say ‘oh I must be going to hell’ I said ’ I didn’t say that, but by the same token you cannot say you recognise good and bad to it’s ends’.

My brother is a teacher and insists one can teach secular ‘goods’ without recognising the source of good, who is God, I say this is well intended, but to teach good without God is to omit the source of good and therefore is of limited effect, infact I think it is an insult to God, but didn’t say it was.

They persistantly asked me ‘who has the truth’, I stated ‘the Catholic Church does’, they asked ‘why’, I stated ‘that it is the Church Christ founded’.They twisted questions on me and my answers. I felt like nothing more than a fool, until I ended it in good humour by me making jokes about it, but inside my heart was breaking, my faith attacked. They said religion is the cause of all wars and discord, saying ‘look at us now arguing about the table’ that we should adhere to common goods between all faiths and stop preaching a particular faith, that to state one faith is the truth is to look down on the rest of the faiths in the world and individual beliefs, infact they said I was preachy and intolerant. I intended to be neither, but when questioned I will answer with the truth and they did not like the answers. They said ‘this is your truth, what you believe’, I said ‘no, this is God’s truth’. They said ‘how do you know it is the truth’ I said ’ because God himself revealed it in Christ Jesus’ they did not accept this.

They asked many questions, but didn’t want to hear the answers, they talked over me, refuting all of the answers I gave them and when I raised my voice to be heard, they accused me of preaching as though they themselves had not tried to preach their perceptions to me, shouting over me so that they could not even hear what I was trying to say in return to their questions. They brushed off my answers saying ‘you will say that you are a staunch Catholic, that doesn’t mean it is the truth’

In short they may as well have slapped me in the face, the hurt would have been less if they had done.

How do I handle this? Do I stop talking about God with my friends and family? I will continue to pray for them, but what do I do?

Thank you in advance for any advice.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
 
Wow! It sounds like they ambushed you, even if it wasn’t deliberate or planned. I’m so sorry this happened. Personally, I don’t think there is a good way to answer any genuine questions they may have if you are being ganged up on.

You can research the various questions they expressed and the next time offer to answer one question, in a controlled way, not with everyone talking at once and compounding the confusion, but if they don’t want to discuss in a reasoned and calm manner, then I would change the subject.

Remember though, you cannot answer questions like these if you do not continue to pray! You know this, of course, Teresa. Center yourself in Christ’s peace, and don’t leave that place. Ask St. Francis deSales to pray for you. He went to Geneva, I believe, and reconverted many.

Best Wishes!
 
" Do I stop talking about God with my friends and family?"

Yes.

Make sure they know in advance that this topic will not be aproched. If they insist, either ask them to leave, or don’t invite them again.
 
1 more thing- there is safety in #'s- perhaps you can discuss things with them 1 AT A TIME - AT ANOTHER TIME- without everyone else around.
 
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Pug:
Wow! It sounds like they ambushed you, even if it wasn’t deliberate or planned. I’m so sorry this happened. Personally, I don’t think there is a good way to answer any genuine questions they may have if you are being ganged up on.

You can research the various questions they expressed and the next time offer to answer one question, in a controlled way, not with everyone talking at once and compounding the confusion, but if they don’t want to discuss in a reasoned and calm manner, then I would change the subject.

Remember though, you cannot answer questions like these if you do not continue to pray! You know this, of course, Teresa. Center yourself in Christ’s peace, and don’t leave that place. Ask St. Francis deSales to pray for you. He went to Geneva, I believe, and reconverted many.

Best Wishes!
Dear Pug and Siena

Yes you are right, it didn’t help everyone speaking at the same time, all of them trying to put in their one cents worth and no-one really willing to listen. I spent a long time listening to their thoughts and ideas before I came into the conversation and once I did they really went for it like a dog at a rabbit!

I don’t think they want to hear the truth, it was as though I was speaking a foreign language to them. The only way the people I love dearly who were seated at my table will come to the truth is if God bashes them over the head, so I will continue to pray for them and love them.

As for discussing faith with them, well maybe it would be best to make it an off topic subject and say with some authority to them, that this is a Catholic house and last time I looked it was my house and as it is my house and a Catholic house then there should be some respect for that and if they cannot respect that then they leave.

They asked me to respect their beliefs whatever they may be, but I saw absolutely no respect for what I believe nor for Jesus or the Catholic faith. In short they asked questions to rather disprove rather than to seek answers. At one point my brother said ‘i believe in myself’. The amount of ‘self’ around the table was immense, they were like children squabbling who has the best ideas as though they can figure God out by themselves without any help from God Himself. I will admit I was furious, but they would not have known that at all and infact seemed to make me a point of fun and joined happily in with my jokes against myself and my faith.

I said at one point ‘this will seem arrogant to you, but I am listening to children talk about spiritual matters they have yet to encounter whereas I have encountered them interiorly’ my brother said ‘yes that is arrogant’ I said ’ yes it seems so, but it isn’t, it’s the truth, do you think it is easy for me to follow the faith i do? Do you think there isn’t an easier path to take that wouldn’t involve what the Catholic faith teaches, do you think it is the easiest choice?’ He didn’t answer me.

They figured they could make the world a better place just by being ‘kind’ to each other without any other doctrine behind it, infact to rub out religion all together because, well it’s gets nasty and causes to many differences between peoples. The arrogance and stupidity of it infuriated me, they wanted all of the rules God gives without recognising and loving Him so that life could be easier not knowing that if they love God then they will love each other and all the rest falls into place. They thought that society could be handled this way and potentially this way all people would be good, they did not account for human weakness especially when they try to live without God.

It was like watching someone with limited knowledge of rubic cubes trying to fathom it out in a scond, they wanted the good bits with none of the work.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
 
Teresa,
Faith , works, hope and love. A delicate balence. Sometimes I am so worked up over my faith I try to convert people by my will. But then I reflect, am I a worthy example of God’s mercy to who I am talking to. Example: I have been in a dry spot. My helper at work, is a young guy I have known for about 7 years. I hired him on because he is a hard worker, good at what he does, and he’s a friend. I have preached to him, and have been tested by my own words. He once said, “I have never seen anyone with as bad luck as you”, I told him it is “training”. And he laughed it off. Well, he got himself locked up. I thought I would get him a Bible and bring it to him at jail. So I go to a store to get one and I’m struggling with what kind of Bible to get. So I pick out a Catholic Bible, this was a great struggle for me. Realising I pick a Catholic Bible , decided to get it Blessed, whoa, my faith in the sacraments is strengthening. Last night, out of nowhere, my parish Priest calls wondering how I am doing. So, I went to confession today and had the Bible blessed. This has brought me back to the Church. Tonight I went to visit my young friend. I saw it in his eyes. As big as plates. Belief. I felt that everything I have gone through has brought me to that moment. Ah, how awesome! I told him this is training. Not to worry about this tent hes in, That he is being tested in a controled environment and to read Acts. The more he starts to believe, the more they are going to come at him, tempting. Ultimatly, this has happened not by my will, but through Grace. I hope he reads, I hope the Lord comforts him and protects him, I hope I have a brother in Christ because of this. I hope you preservere in love, faith and works and leave room for the Lord. I thank God for the wonderful gift He has giving me today, through His Son Jesus Christ. May God Bless and reward you, Tim
 
Hi Teresa,
They figured they could make the world a better place just by being ‘kind’ to each other without any other doctrine behind it.
Sounds to me like typical secular humanists; translated, “The goodness of man is inherent, and one can transform the world without God butting in.”

With their frame of mind being what it is, Teresa, you will knock heads and cause further friction, until they themselves begin to seek God and ask for your help in understanding our faith. I have the same trouble in my family, and religion is strictly off-limits in conversation. It is a real suffering, for I see my teenage grandchildren without any idea of the faith they were baptized into. We will never convert them by simply expressing the truth, I’m afraid, until their hearts are readied to accept it.

Stay the course in being a Christ-like role model, and some day this door may open for you. I already bet you pray for them as well, and who knows? One sows, another waters, but God is Lord of the field and facilitates the growth, no matter from whom it comes.

🙂 Carole
 
Just what Jesus told us to expect in Matthew 10.

34 "Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon the earth. I have come to bring not peace but the sword. 35 For I have come to set a man ‘against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; 36 and one’s enemies will be those of his household.’

And pretty much the same conversation we’re all having with our families these days.

Your approach was fine, if you don’t think so then with a sense of humour you may look up to God and ask “now why didn’t You make me a more talented apologist!” Anyhow, the Christian love is to wish for the well-being & salvation of your family. Recognize at least that that is your prize and not the technique.

I was just chatting with a public school teacher yesterday and when I asked if they taught about God she simply answered the typical “we teach them morals” and looked at me as though she had answered the question.

It’s fine to talk about morals without God, but I often doubt that most of our loved ones and friends who do that, have as you say bothered to follow the truth to its source. In today’s readings Jesus the master told us we need to love God and secondly our neighbour. I’m sure he has a slightly better understanding of morals than the rest of us.

At least you let them know that you have given it all considerable analysis and that is your conclusion. It certainly puts people out of their comfort zone when you’ve given them a different viewpoint from what they’re being told everywhere else.
 
Dear Springbreeze,
I don’t have dinner parties with relatives for just the reasons you mention. 😃
I give you credit for having greater love & patience than me. 😉
I have no right or wrong answer for you. I do think your family and friends should have greater respect for you in your home. I say…when in Rome do as the Romans do and shut up. No one should be purposely shouting above you in your home. I am not sure I would invite that ‘shouter’ back without an apology from him/her.
Peace and all Good Things,
Contemplative
 
Springbreeze, I understand what you just went through! It happened to me a few years ago, only it was two close friends and no family memebers. I was shocked at my inability to formulate good answers that were not twisted around. However, I have learned some valuable things from the incident.
  1. God works in mysterious ways. I forced myself to dig deeper into my faith so I would not feel so stupid or unprepared again. I began to read and reread things I did not have a firm grasp on. I am a cradle catholic, but I feel that some of the pieces were left out of my education. I knew A and C and believed them, but did not know B, how they related and made it flow.
  2. The Holy Spirit is working through those who are willing to listen to him. You might have planted a seed with in someone’s mind that the Holy Spirit can cultivate and bring them closer to God.
  3. Satan and his demons are always looking for an edge. They are trying to confuse you and twist all your words around. Satan knows our faith from day one and he also knows where we question things. If you give him an opening he will run with it until you realize what is going on or loose God. We are in spiritual warfare and to deny that he is not there would give him the advantage he is looking for. This was the first thing that came to my mind when reading your post, especially when your brother said he believes in himself. He is trying to be like God instead of admitting there is some greater being than he. Sound familiar?
This desensitizing the horror of our glutton and slothful, self centered society has really made so many loose sight of God in all the smoke the Netherworld has thrown in our face. To those who can see this, it is really hard to see why others can not. I am reminded of the parable of the seed sower, the openess of those to hear God’s message and live it out. (I have some relatives I am concerned for their salvation too.)
  1. The Christian faiths are not all the same. Read anything by the now Pope Benedict when he was Cardinal Ratzinger! The Roman Catholic Church was started by Christ and we have maintained his teachings on matters of faith and morals. We have not bent our doctrines to accept societies whims! I am not saying the other Christians are all wrong, but they are not as true to Jesus as the RC. If your want to be in the fullness of truth, you must come home to rome!
My prayer are with you! Please take this to heart and know I share your journey.
 
before your next family gathering, or one-on-one conversation with any of these people on the topic of your religious beliefs, read Search and Rescue by Patrick Madrid. How to and how not to evangelize your own family. Extraordinary damage can be done by allowing such discussions to degenerate into family bickering and quarrels (which often have nothing to do with the issue being discussed).
 
Dear friends

One of my friends present at the dinner called me today and was as familiar as ever and even asked me for a favour. She talked about herself for the entire conversation.

It’s beyond me! Obviously she had no idea of her words or actions that night.

My decision is not to discuss faith, the Catholic faith and God again with his set of family and friends. It’s strictly off limits. I’ll always pray for them, but I will not discuss faith with them and presently am avoiding their company.

Thank you all for your very kind and thoughtful posts. You have strengthened my spirit not to be dragged down by this experience and I am very grateful to all of you who have responded to my thread.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
 
2 quotes come to mind:

“Preach always, sometimes use words”

“Love the sinner not the sin.”

You are on a spiritual journey that conflicts with the world. Congratulations on that. It’s a bumpy road but perservere for God loves you always.

Peace,
Jen
 
Teresa:

God bless your aching heart. I have many non catholic friends too. Sometimes it gets a little heated…but I just try to control my own temper.

Fr. John Corapi said: keep telling them the truth, one day it will sink in.

The truth is powerful, even when the mockers just want to make a joke, the truth resonates in the deepest recesses of the heart and when it is heard, there’s always resonance. So, even on the outside it may seem to be falling on deaf ears, the heart stirs.

Henry VIII had to kill St. Thomas More to aleviate his guilty conscience. I don’t know why I wrote that. My point is that TRUTH packs a heavy punch. So whenever we declare truth revealed by God, it is always effective.

Keep your head up sister. I have a feeling you put a smile on the face of Christ at dinner.

in XT.
 
Dear Teresa,

I feel your pain and I can see your heart sunk, perhaps mostly for missing an opportunity to preach the Good News. However, rest assured that your taking blows from all sides without stopping talking to them charitably was a grace of the Spirit and He will continue His work in their hearts.
They said religion is the cause of all wars and discord, saying ‘look at us now arguing about the table’
Well, they were the ones discording with you in your home. The bloodiest century in human history was the 20th. More human beings died in it than in all previously recorded centuries:
  • over 60 million in two world wars among secularist countries.
  • about 100 million by the scourge of atheist communism.
that we should adhere to common goods between all faiths and stop preaching a particular faith,
Wasn’t this preaching on their part?
that to state one faith is the truth is to look down on the rest of the faiths in the world and individual beliefs,
Yet, they were looking down on your faith and individual beliefs…
in fact they said I was preachy and intolerant.
And what’s this but intolerance? If they’re so tolerant, they should abide by their own principles and tolerate you. But the fact is that they’re not, they just don’t tolerate the Church, period.

This attitude is old, yet we keep falling in this trap often. As our pastor hinted at in his homily today, we cannot play by the rules of the world or we’ll always be in a defensive position. We need to state clearly that their “religion” is humanism and/or secularism, not something neutral or commonsensical.

Yet, know that the servant is not greater than the Master. He was persecuted, tortured and nailed on the cross. Know that when they persecute you, they persecuted Him first. But He will be with you always.

:blessyou:
 
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