Help on baptizem please

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rakarnsunju

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Hello all.

I was wondering if someone could help me with some info.
I have kind of a strange situation, please bear with me

My child who is 7 years old goes to church with her grandparents every other Sunday. I personally do not go to church, nor am I catholic. The grandparents are however.
My child wanted to learn about god and what her grandparents do at church, So it was agreed that she would go.

Now here is my issue. My child has been speaking of late about being baptized. Though she does not really understand what it means but when she has told me about it, it seems to match up with what baptism is.

My problem is, nor I or her mother ever agreed to have this done to our child, nor does she really understand what it means.

Now we contacted the priest who does the church service and he is very, very rude about giving us such information.(he is a very close friend with the grandparents)
The grand parents also have told us that she is not been baptized, yet it has slipped a few times that my child has ‘god parents’. It seems i cannot get a straight answer either out of the grandparents ( going so far as to tell her she is not allowed to go with her other grandparents to their church because she is now catholic)
Or out of the priest as he is too busy to look up to see if she has a baptism record.

My simple question is what can I do here? How can I find out if my child has been through a baptism, because its seems I’m being avoided or lied to by the church. Who else can I contact?
Is there someone I can contact who can tell me for sure if this has happened?

Please don’t get me wrong, I have respect for all religions and I have no problem with my child learning about god, but there are other factors that come in to play here such as custody agreements with the grandparents, which states that in matters of religion must be signed off by both my wife and myself.

Please any information would be helpful.

Thank you for your time and god bless

Ra
 
rakarnsunju said:
Hello all.

I was wondering if someone could help me with some info.
I have kind of a strange situation, please bear with me

My child who is 7 years old goes to church with her grandparents every other Sunday. I personally do not go to church, nor am I catholic. The grandparents are however.
My child wanted to learn about god and what her grandparents do at church, So it was agreed that she would go.

Now here is my issue. My child has been speaking of late about being baptized. Though she does not really understand what it means but when she has told me about it, it seems to match up with what baptism is.

My problem is, nor I or her mother ever agreed to have this done to our child, nor does she really understand what it means.

Now we contacted the priest who does the church service and he is very, very rude about giving us such information.(he is a very close friend with the grandparents)
The grand parents also have told us that she is not been baptized, yet it has slipped a few times that my child has ‘god parents’. It seems i cannot get a straight answer either out of the grandparents ( going so far as to tell her she is not allowed to go with her other grandparents to their church because she is now catholic)
Or out of the priest as he is too busy to look up to see if she has a baptism record.

My simple question is what can I do here? How can I find out if my child has been through a baptism, because its seems I’m being avoided or lied to by the church. Who else can I contact?
Is there someone I can contact who can tell me for sure if this has happened?

Please don’t get me wrong, I have respect for all religions and I have no problem with my child learning about god, but there are other factors that come in to play here such as custody agreements with the grandparents, which states that in matters of religion must be signed off by both my wife and myself.

Please any information would be helpful.

Thank you for your time and god bless

Ra
Click to expand...
If your daughter has been baptised then something has gone seriously wrong. She should not have been baptised without your permission.

First ask your daughter. I have had children that age and have nieces and nephews in that age range. Children of that age will know if they’ve been baptised. They may not actually know what it was if they weren’t told but they’ll know they’ve been through a special ceremony where water was poured over their head and they were the centre of attention. If your daughter has been baptised at around that age she should know. Be gentle and promise her (and go through with the promise) that she will not be in trouble if you discover she’s been baptised.

If you feel your daughter has not given a satisfactory answer either way then challenge the grandparents. You will need to do this in a non-confrontational way. If you are confrontational they are more likely to lie to you (if they are indeed lying).

If speaking to the grandparents does not work I would go to the priest. First, make a verbal approach and again be non-confrontational. However, be assertive and remind the priest she is your child and decisions about her baptism are yours. If that does not give you a satisfactory response write to the priest. Make sure the letter is dated and signed. The letter should be polite and matter-of-fact. Do not make it emotional or full of wild accusations.

If at this point you feel everyone is still giving you the run around, write to the bishop. Tell the bishop everything. Send the bishop a copy of the letter you sent to the priest. If the priest sent any written responses (e.g. letter, email) provide the bishop with a copy of the priest’s response.

I cannot guarantee that anyone will give you an answer you believe. I hope that you get this matter resolved to your satisfaction.
 
actually, at age 7 she is no longer an infant and is considered an adult in church law-- capable of asking for baptism on her own.
 
If you daughter wants to be baptized, let her be baptized. There is no harm in it. She is expressing her beliefs and wants to start a journey into the church. She’s going to be a very independent woman when she grows up. Talk to her and find out way she wants this. If you deny her this, it may force soured relationships with you and your daughter in the future. She’ll do it it as teenager or adult if she wants too. Avoid the fight now and respect her decision.
 
We need to be careful about what we are saying. Does the child want to be baptised? Are the grandparents arranging for the child to be baptised without informing the parents? Have the grandparents had the child baptised without the parents knowledge? Has/is the priest colluding with the grandparents? As a parent I would be extremely unhappy if any one were to do anything like this without by knowledge. The parents are entitled to know what is happening to their child.
 
Although a 7 year old may request or agree to baptism, this cannot be carried out without the consent of the child’s parents or guardian. If the grandparents have arranged for her to be baptised, both they and the minister of baptism have acted improperly.
 
jimrob said:
Although a 7 year old may request or agree to baptism, this cannot be carried out without the consent of the child’s parents or guardian. If the grandparents have arranged for her to be baptised, both they and the minister of baptism have acted improperly.
Click to expand...
I agree.
 
rakarnsunju said:
HelloPlease any information would be helpful.

Thank you for your time and god bless

Ra
Click to expand...
I can’t speak to the individual situation because I have not heard the priest’s side of the story, but in canon law the child cannot be baptized unless at least one of the parents consents. You can find out simply by calling the parish secretary if a baptism has been recorded. But it would seem easier to first confront the grandparents, because if they are doing this, or anything else, with your child without your knowledge and approval there is a clear violation of trust and a real problem in the relationship. I would not give my child into the care of someone I could not trust on a grave matter like this.

What happens if it turns out the priest has baptized the child? The baptism is valid and cannot be undone, it is a simple fact that it happened, and the child is Catholic. The next step is up to you, as parents, to decide what to do about her upbringing. But if that is the case, and neither parent consented, I would really bring it to the attention of the bishop, but first be very sure of the facts.

In canon law (the law which governs how representatives of the Church are to carry out things like sacraments) a child over 7 is considered an adult for the purposes of baptism and other sacraments of initiation (confirmation and first communion) and can on her own experience conversion, have a desire for baptism, be instructed and be initiated (that is, receive those sacraments) but the same law applies, there must be permission from the parent or legal guardian.
 
Thank you all for the infomation.

Again the presit has given me the run around last time I spoke with him.

I also want to make it clear that my child does not understand what baptizm means. She wanted to find out about what the grand parents do in church, which I agreed to as i beleive eduction in religion is a good thing for all.

From what she has told me it looks like she did have it done. She explane to me everything that happen, but if you ask her what it means to her she will tell you it meant she got her head wet and messed up her hair. not really the answer you would want from someone who is giving themself to the lord.

To address one of the earlier posters. Again I have no problem with hair wishing to get baptized, IF she wants it and understands what it is about, which in this case she doesnt, she just did it because the grand parents told her too.
This in my opinion is one of the worst things to do. Giving yourself to the lord, loving and beleiveing in should be something you want to do and understand what you are doing.

She does not.

But again thank you very much for all the information, I have the sent the letter to the church and if I dont get anything back I will contact the bishop.

Again thank you all

Ra
 
Call the secretary during business hours and ask for a a copy of the baptismal record. There has to be one if she was baptized, and the church issues a new baptismal record for all sorts of things. If you find that it was done, make an appointment with the priest, don’t just try to catch him after mass when he is busy or distracted.

Second, if your daughter was below the age of reason (7) when she got baptized she didn’t need to know what baptism actually accomplished, it was accomplished without her knowledge. It is then up to the parents (usually) to then teach her that she is now a member of the body of Christ and everything that goes along with that. (Clarification, if she was above the age of reason and didn’t know, the sacrament was still effective, but the priest should have done some prep so she knew what she was agreeing too when she took on the baptismal promises).

Third, the grandparents were very wrong to get her baptized without your permission and the priest should not have done it. You might want to set some boundaries with grandparents, and explain that you do not mind her exploring the faith, but you would like to be kept informed and want her to receive instruction in the faith before she receive any sacraments. (I would have this conversation soon since first confession and first communion generally come up at about this age).
 
People seem to be assuming there is a parish secretary to go through, in most parishes worldwide I have been in this is not the case.

If I were you, I would write once more to the parish priest, keeping a copy of your letter (as well, if you have it, of any previous correspondance). If you get no information from him then it’s time to contact the diocese.

Get hold of the Ordo for the diocese, or the website if they have one, and find the contact details for the diocesan chancery. I would write to the Chancery, copied in to the bishop, explaining that at present you only want to find out the facts of the case i.e. is your daughter baptised or not. Any disciplinary action can be looked at later, as well as what formation will be needed for your daughter if she does turn out to have been baptised Catholic.

Hopefully that will get you the information you need.
 
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